Huh? Starbucks And Subway Top Zagat's Latest List

• Well, yes, I agree. somewhat. Peet's is far superior to Starbucks. K� (Newport and Tustin) is a good independent. And I thought McD's was passable (and better than expected). But nearly every coffee I've had at Starbucks has been virtually tasteless. I'm talking hot milk and nothing else. I guess I need an extra shot, but even when I've asked for one it's still been weak (and I don't even like strong coffee!). Yes, I suppose SB did at least increase interest in coffee across the nation, but the sad fact is they also put other places out of business. Not in every case, obviously. Not that I'd ever wish anyone to end up with bad finances (much less anyone to lose their job), it's pretty safe to say they're paying the price for overexpansion (and weak coffee!!)

• I don't get the Starbuck's bashing -- taste wise in any case. Prior to their existence it was impossible to get anything resembling a decent cup of coffee across most of this fine nation of ours and dark roast coffee was only to found in the strange, strange confines of places like Berkeley. Now, naturally, Starbucks mass market practices have been criticized, and there is definitely a taste-price to be paid there as well -- as marked by the famed split with Peet's coffee over the issue of how wide an area they could serve without sacrificing some quality. But the fact remains that, in the vast majority of places, if there's any better coffee around, it's Peets, if you're lucky. Most likely, it's nothing. (Though it's true McDonalds and Dunkin aren't horrible.) And even those much ballyhooed independent roasters, when they are available, often aren't all that much better than Starbucks and are very rarely better than Peet's. I also give them vast credit for literally changing the tastes of Americans. Rather than pandering to an already existing market, they created a new one almost out of whole cloth.

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