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Haidl 3 Get 6 Years: The recap

[Editor's note: This is a compilation of Moxley's Friday dispatches from the courthouse. For additional reader comments, please see his original posts.]


The naive thought this morning's Haidl 3 sentencing would last maybe 20 minutes. Around 11:30 a.m., Judge Francisco Briseno decided it was time for lunch.



Veteran journalists say they haven't seen such a crowd since the 1989 trial of serial killer Randy Kraft. Shouting matches broke out over seats. The Times and Reg sent SWAT teams of reporters. The three defendants--Greg Haidl, Kyle Nachreiner and Keith Spann--were brought in chained together wearing orange jumpsuits. Haidl's head is almost shaved; he's wearing glasses these days.



Everyone knew that Jane Doe would speak. The surprise of the morning was that two of the three defendants also spoke. Haidl took a deep breath and then read his statement in a plodding manner, almost inaudibly. He apologized to Jane Doe. "It was never my intention to cause you pain," he said. She sat in the front row, looking away. "If there's anything I can do . . . ." he said, and then trailed off. "What happened that night was not planned or plotted," he continued. "It was a miniscule piece of what I was. I wake up everyday and feel bad about the people I hurt. Someone was hurt because of my acts."



Nachreiner seems the most emotional of the three. He too apologized for his "repugnant actions," said "I accept full responsibility" and assured the court that his time in jail "gave him time to reflect on his life." He summed it up: "I was leading a self-destructive life." He was more eloquent, even elegant; his supporters openly wept. Even Haidl pere Don Haidl wiped a tear. Nachreiner said he wants something positive to come from this, maybe teach kids what he's learned. He ended with this to Jane Doe: "My heart goes out to you."



There was nothing from Spann. Moments later his mother explained he's not a good public speaker.



The parents of the defendants also spoke, and each repeatedly offered Jane Doe and her family an apology. Their sons are repentant, they said, and remorseful. What they did back in July 2002 on a pool table in a Newport Beach garage was unforgivable—but forgive, they begged. Don Haidl approached the podium, coughed and in a voice shaped by cigarettes and something like chronic bronchitis—"deep" and "gravelly" don't begin to describe it--apologized to the judge, prosecutors and the family. He said, "The girl and her family are not my enemies. They never were. This has been a complete tragedy." He blasted media reports that his son is a "rich, spoiled kid" as "pure garbage." He claimed Greg has showed remorse every day for his actions.



Despite the sudden show of remorse, the morning's highlight was still the testimony of Jane Doe, who spoke after her parents described how their longtime marriage has been suddenly difficult. Her father remembered waking up to hear his daughter crying in the middle of the night—always the same dream with the same guys. Speaking of the 2004 jury deadlock in the first round of the Haidl case, Doe's mother said, "I felt like she had been raped again—this time by the judicial system."



Doe said she long thought July 6, 2002, the morning after the rape, would be the worst day of her life. But then, she said, the harassment began. The Haidl private detectives tailing her, exposing her, rifling the family trash cans. She was abused on the witness stand by the Haidl defense team, she said. "First they took my life," she said, "and then they took my identity." One of the Haidl detectives was calling out her name on the high school campus. Then came the first trial, in 2004, when a jury returned deadlocked. She was scared—a victim treated as a perpetrator. When the second trial came in 2005, she considered suicide and then decided, "I was not going to let these men take my last breath too." Turning to the Haidl 3, she asked, "When did I become a piece of meat and not a friend?" She called them "sexual predators" who should spend "multiple years behind bars."



One man not present: lead defense attorney Joseph G. Cavallo. After the guilty verdict, his relationship with Haidl Sr. went way south.



This afternoon, after defense attorneys argue for probation, Briseno is scheduled to sentence the defendants. He gave one singular hint about his perspective on the case: "Clearly," he said at the outset, "Jane Doe is completely out of it, unconscious, when she is on the pool table."





At 4:07, Briseno finally put an end to the long-running saga of the Haidl 3, sentencing Greg Haidl, Kyle Nachreiner and Keith Spann to six years in state prison.


The defendants seemed to have expected nothing less; their supporters wept.


The judge's decision put a cap on an afternoon that saw the defense switch tactics. In the morning, we heard the defendants and their supporters protest their remorse. That changed after lunch, when Haidl's attorney, Al Stokke, went after Jane Doe, denying that her emotional stress could be positively linked to the attack. He criticized a prosecutor's request that the three not be segregated from the general prison population as "without question, the most outrageous position I have ever seen." It was tantamount, he said, to "calling for their murder."



When it was his turn, Brisneo said he didn't buy the defendants' claims of remorse; they were, he suggested, too little, too late. Nor could he ignore the "egregiousness" of the attack, noting that the defendants laughed and joked while their victim lay unclothed and unconscious on the pool table. He ripped into the defense team's suggestion that Doe had a history of using foreign objects as sexual toys, saying there was no evidence to support such a claim


The defendants took advantage of their victim's trust, Brisneo said.


Based on numerous doctors interviews with the Haidl 3, Brisneo had concluded that only "a lengthy period of time" in prison could help them "abate" their alcohol and substance abuse.



"Victim never consented to being degraded."


The press conference showed that Briseno had called it: the defendants' claims of remorse were indeed insincere.

In the morning we heard the defendants and their supporters apologize to Jane Doe and her family. They offered help. They promised to change. They took responsibility.

A few hours later, before sentencing the Haidl 3, Judge Briseno said he attributed the remorse to "self-pity" because they were so likely headed to prison. And indeed, when he sentenced the Haidl 3 to six years each in a state prison--plus lifetime registration as sex offenders--the awkward honeymoon was over.


Speaking at the post-sentencing press conference, Haidl attorney Al Stokke said, "Yes, we will appeal the sentence and the conviction."


He went on to say that his client, who will serve just 21 months of actual prison time, "is a very mature person now."


John Barnett, attorney for Kyle Nachreiner, took the microphone next. "Everybody lost today. There were no victors," he complained. "It's hard to put a pretty face on state prison for teenagers." Nachreiner is now 21.


But Keith Spann's attorney, Peter Morreale, pulled out the sharpest knife. He called Judge Briseno's sentence "a bit excessive," then called him an excellent judge and took aim at District Attorney Tony Rackauckas. It was not Spann who should be ashamed, he said, but the DA. "The way the prosecutor's office pursued this matter was unconscionable," Morreale said. "There was a political agenda that drove this case. A lot of politics were involved. It should have been handled professionally." In answer to a reporter's question, he called the prosecution "a witch hunt." He blamed the DA for "dragging everyone through the mud, including the victim."


It was Morreale who, in court, famously asked Jane Doe if she liked to swallow after oral sex.


Sheldon Lodmer, the civil lawyer for Jane Doe, applauded the DA, saying Rackauckas showed "a lot of fortitude." He said the defense had lost the trial in part because of "dastardly attacks on my client." He said Jane Doe and her family were pleased that the judge sentenced the Haidl 3 to state prison, but had not had time to digest the prison terms.


Assistant DA Chuck Middleton, who won the second trial, shot back at the defense. "Even today," the prosecutor said, "the defense is still victimizing the victim." He said he had hoped for longer sentences.


DA Rackauckas said, "This case captured the county and the country's attention because of the defense's relentless and ruthless win-at-all-costs actions before, during and after the trial."

Comments (48)

  1. Debby Bodkin says:

    The OC District Attorney said:

    "This case captured the county and the country's attention because of the defense's relentless and ruthless win-at-all-costs actions before, during and after the trial."

    Response in Rebuttal to the DA:

    "This case captured the country's attention because it involved horrific sex crimes committed against a minor child, money, a former Asst. Sheriff's son and his friends, a video tape to prove the facts in 20 minutes and a politically-motivated prosecution."


    Debby Bodkin
    www.catholics4justice.com

  2. Scott Grossman says:

    The following is the text of the letter I mailed to the home of Haidl Defense Attorney Al Stokke. Enjoy:

    March 11, 2006

    Dear Mr. Stokke:

    I've just read the account of the Haidl sentencing in the paper. I was impressed by your comparison of the three boys' sexual assault on an unconscious girl to the stabbing of a corpse. The newspaper even quoted your notable assertion: "She couldn't have felt it happen. She only knows it happened because of the videotape."

    I agree! We MUST get together to discuss this very important legal distinction. We'll enjoy 10 or 12 cocktails… perhaps some laced hors d'oeuvres… and then my buddies and I might like to penetrate you with a pool cue, a bottle and a Wiffle ball bat.

    Not to worry, Mr. Stokke, no video shall be recorded. So it won't hurt a bit. In fact, stabbing you in the ass would be just like stabbing a corpse.

    Sincerely,

    Scott A. Grossman

  3. Alex says:

    Listen: when I'm with a girl and she drinks herself unconscious (it's happened many times), I do NOT think to myself, "Oh boy! It's fantasy fulfillment time!" Instead, I look after her, take care of her, make sure she makes it home, even hold her hair back while she vomits.
    The vulnerable do not deserve to be victimized. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's assholes like the Haidl 3 who make girls distrustful of men everywhere. These guys make it harder and harder for decent men everywhere to get laid and they should be savagely and appropriately punishd for it in prison and for the rest of their lives. That they were tried twice is not a testament to their possible innocence or the ambiguities of the case; it's a testament to our porous legal system and the ability of brilliant minds to take advantage of it. P.S., lawyers - just because you CAN get someone off doesn't mean you SHOULD.

  4. Maxine says:

    Sad that teenagers aren't allowed to make mistakes without it becoming permanent.

    Teenagers have always acted stupid. It's just that nowadays they are on video forevermore.

  5. Alex says:

    What was a bigger mistake? The pool cue, for obvious size reasons? Or the lit cigarette, for inhumanity points? Or RECORDING the event? That was pretty massively stupid. What kind of people would enjoy watching that?
    No, you're right, the biggest mistake was LOSING THE TAPE.

    Why can't people understand that sometimes, just sometimes, we do things that demonstrate how much we belong in jail? I didn't have any friends in high school who liked to rape on tape.

  6. Bapudi says:

    Maxine: "make mistakes" What in the sweet hell is wrong with you? Those monsters RAPED a teenage girl while she was unconscious. Is it ok if a group of men do that to you and get away with a slap on the wrist?

    You moron.

  7. Not Stuck In Lodi says:

    White Punks On Dope

  8. Not Maxine's Friend says:

    To Dear Maxine: Teens are allowed to make mistakes. They just have to pay for them--like the rest of us--when their behavior is demented and criminal. It's pathetic there are people like you who take the time to say they're "sad" for the men, but express no sympathy for the victim. Cavallo would love you on all his juries.

  9. matty says:

    Oh for once its great not to be a spoiled rich brat. poor little punk kids, they are going to have a great time in prison. too bad they wont be able to hold in their own shit after their stint locked up. i only wish the punishment was longer. have fun buddies!

  10. Sandy says:

    Geez Maxine, kids make mistakes like drinking too much and passing out on their parents lawn,they don't gang rape and force objects into the poor girl. What the hell is wrong with you?

  11. Allison says:

    I have been following this case from the begining, even after I relocated to the UK. I did alot of stupid things as a teen, but luckily, I never had so-called friends that thought it was okay to take advantage of me or any other during one of our "mistakes". We all have choices. And although we may make stupid ones as teenagers, we still do know the difference between right and wrong. It makes you wonder what would have happened had it been three females penetrating the lone defenseless, unconscious male. More than likely, he would not have stood up for himself and done what was right. Jane Doe did. My only wish was that the boys (now men) involved were made to give up more of their own lives behind the bars of a prison cell. Six years is nothing. Or another 21 months counting time served. At least they will always be listed as sex offenders. It is what they are as the act was very much offensive.

  12. Maxine says:

    Teenagers have been making youthful indiscretions forever. It will never change.

    Life goes on.

    My hope for all concerned in this mess, is that everyone moves forward with their life and can reach a point where they move past it.

    The gal will get a considerable amount of money from the civil suit, and hopefully, get into a zone of foregiveness. And, the gentlemen will get on with their lives with these mistakes becoming nothing but distant memories, if that.

    Everybody move on and let these youthful indiscretions that we all make, be in the past.

    Forgive and forget!

  13. kim says:

    MISTAKE???? It was simply a mistake that was videotaped? I think not. A "youthful indiscretion" is trying pot, or stealing a blouse from a boutique, or maybe even having sex before you really are ready. But all of these acts have consequences. Forcefully and with foreign objects, raping a young, intoxicated girl and then claiming she asked for it has CONSEQUENCES. Jail is that consequence.

  14. caryn says:

    this is hardly a "youthful indiscretion"! i can't think of any teenager who could possibly think that penetrating another human being with a LIT CIGARETTE as normal or fun. in fact, people who do think like this i believe are called PSYCHOS. i'm just curious how anyone in their right mind could think this crime was anything less that disgusting and repulsive. this CRIME was hardly a "oh what did i do last night" type of situation.
    i'm just curious what parent raises their children with the capacity to do such things...shame on the parents and those "boys" should get all that they deserve in prison.

  15. alex lopex says:

    maxine what if it were your daughter on that pool table, would it still be a youthful indescretion??

  16. Maxine says:

    Keep in mind that none of the parties live(d) in Orange County.

    Interesting how this became an Orange County story, though. They all live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is in San Bernardino County.

    The Haidl boy was raised there.

    None of these kids was raised in Orange County. Strictly Inland Empire.

    For whatever that's worth.

  17. matty says:

    maxine, who gives a rat's ass where this took place. it became an "OC Story" because of where the event took place, along with the crimes committed by Haidle while he was out on bail. And not to mention Haidl's father was the assisnt to the ORANGE COUNTY sheriff. You obviously think you are friends with these sickos, coming here and trying to stick up for them. sick sick twisted people. how about i come over and shove some objects up you.

  18. Marnie (Not moronic Maxine) says:

    Maxine must not be a real person, but some idiot trying to get responses to her moronic and inane, mindless drivel. Or she's one of the rapists' moms.

  19. Sean says:

    Sad story and even sadder outcome. 6 year is NOT enough! However, as someone said earlier, there were no winners in todays sentencing. I pray and hope "jane doe" can live a "normal" life and somehow move on. People forget to realize that when you are raped, many times, your soul is dead as well. I am not a woman nor have I ever been raped, however, I've known two very good friends who have been "date raped". To look in their eyes and see the pain is one thing. For a woman to be ravaged and degraded by the Haidl3 is unimaginable.
    I would love to meet the defense attorneys one day. I know they are doing their "job" but they are selling their souls for money and recognition.

  20. CAS says:

    I would love to see a full report on the judge's comments...and I know it isn't going to be showing up in the LA Times...

    I am also curious as to the reactions of the psycho jurors from the first trial is and what it is that brainwashed them to vote not guilty...where did these freaks come from? what is wrong with them? what kind of sex lives do they have that they saw something other than an unconscious girl being raped and degraded, which is what the police saw, the judge saw, the DA saw and apparently everyone BUT the defense team and the first jury saw....

    The first jury is actually the scariest part of this whole story, you expect rich, scum rapists to lie and their worthless parents to back them up and their souless lawyers to back them up...but a jury of 12 people and ALL of them but 1 somehow suffered a collective hallucination that the gang rape they were seeing really wasn't a gang rape but a "sexcapade" with a 16 year old Oscar caliber actress??

  21. Richard says:

    Re: the first jury's decision, there's a distinct possibility that Haidl Sr. got to them and paid them off. It would not have been that difficult for him and those scumbag defense attorneys to do that, especially with Haidl's connections to Sheriff Carona and Jaramillo. Thank goodness there was at least one honest juror.

  22. Richard D says:

    These guys will have an interesting time in prison. Do yu think they will have any orifaces stuffed ?
    They should be afraid- very afraid

  23. Steve says:

    you people are all so manipulated by what society tells you to think and not reality. What these boys did happens every day throughout the US. This girl had slept with all 3 in the previous week, so she was easy, and we have all known that girl in high school. She came over that night expecting to get fucked by one if not all three. Wasn't that her comment to her girlfriend that she probably would have fucked all three if they wanted to. They went over the line by degrading her inserting objects, but to men and boys, we have always been taught to revere the famale and they make the decision whether or not sex occurs. If a boy had been passed out and a bunch of girls stripped him naked, and inserted pool cues up his ass, and sat on his cock, would they go to prison? A male teacher screws his 12 yo student, and he deservedly should be hung, yet a hot 24 yo fem, fucks her 12 yo stud why his cousin drives the car and she get's probation. When it comes to sex crimes, society groups all of the deviant men together and vilify all sex male crimes. Had the video never come out no one would have been destroyed as have all of the players forever. These poor boys are going to be sacrificed in prison and forever irreprebaly damaged as is Jane Doe if not already. But ask yourself, a 16 yo girl that is sexually active? Bad parenting is the blame. The boys were presented with a forbidden opportunity and they did not grasp the seriousness of their action. I doubt they even considered they were breaking a law. Ever high school class has a low self esteem slut that will fuck anybody. So these boys are going to prison. And the girl had this crime never been discovered would have continued to act out self destructive behaviour as a result of deeper issues that translated into promiscuos sex. Now all 4 are going to be picking up their shattered lives for the rest of their lives. Based on adult rules imposed on unexperienced children.

  24. Maxine says:

    I'm telling you this whole thing is a bunch of nonsense.

    These kids have the rest of their lives. In 10 years, 20 years, ....nobody's going to care about one out-of-control moment that happened when a bunch of teenagers engaged in a bit of foolishness.

    "Jane Doe" will make out ok, and if she's smart, just take the money, and forget the whole thing. She's got her whole life ahead of her, and nobody dwells on past mistakes that happened in childhood.

    The whole thing is so ridiculous, you'd think there was absolutely nothing else going on in the world, but the saga of these kids and their sordid dramas.

    Enough. Isn't there anything else going on in the world that OC Weekly could possibly titillate readers with, other than these kids?

  25. Quynh says:

    Maxine, you have no idea what a person who has been raped goes through. You have no idea the pain, the trauma, the suffering, the agony.

    A part of me is crying for all of humanity because people like you, people with no idea of what the pain of being raped is like, exist and prescribe "toughness" and "moving on" for the grief that follows rape. No shit, Sherlock. It's not like people ENJOY being HAUNTED by something terrible that should never have happened to them.

    Have you never met a rape victim before?

    Or are you remarkably an antisocial deviant incapable of feeling sympathy? Whatever it is, it was people like you who prolonged that trial.

  26. CAS says:

    So, a 16 year old who is sexually active is bad...but you say nothing about the boys...who were all sexually active.

    Yeah, I guess that double standard is still working just fine.

    16 and 17 year olds know that it is wrong and ILLEGAL to sodomize an unconscious girl with a pool cue and put a lighted cigarette inside of her.

    What she "probably" would have done is not the issue, the issue is what the 3 guys did do and that is why they are going to prision.

    I hope the three guys ARE irreparably damaged by their time in prison, since they ruined this girl's life.

    Two of the 3 perverts were 17 and Greg was 16, they are not inexperienced children, they are practically adults and should be treated as such.

  27. Allison says:

    I guess it is a good think that the individual that still refers to Jane Doe as £the slut from school that we all knew" was not part of the jury. Isn't there a song about how men who have multiple partners are considered studs yet women would automatically be sluts or whores. It still comes down to society and the way each person is raised on how they are even going to view this case.
    It matters not if Jane Doe had slept with all of them prior or planned to. Once she was unconscious, the situation became the same as her saying "no", making it rape. Young men of 16 and 17 chose to do the forbidden. You want to think about the bible - then they took the apple. They all knew it was wrong. They knew there could be consequences. However, they also somehow thought they were above the law.
    I don't think even prison will affect them completely. What will hurt them the most is the time way in the future when their own child comes home and asks why their father is showing up on a sex offenders website and is having to deal with all of their friends knowing about it. It will never go away. But that is the life that they now lead. Hopefully many other teenagers will learn from this story, and learn to make better choices, regardless of what type of fun may be presented to them. There are no winners.

  28. CAS says:

    The saddest thing, aside from what was done to Jane Doe, is that most of the pain and suffering could have been avoided if only the three rapist liars had been willing to admit their guilt and show some remorse...they probably would have gotten a couple years in jail..in reality a few months, few headlines and certainly less trauma for their victim.

    But they refused to accept ANY responsibility. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    Jane wanted it.
    Jane should be on trial,not them.
    The tape was doctored.
    The tape was Greg's property and should be suppressed.
    Jane was faking unconsciousness.
    Jane gave advance consent [not even a legal defense]
    Jane was a slut anyway so who cares.
    Jane didn't get injured so why cares.

    THAT is why they are going to prison and why the DA refused to back down.

    THAT is why no amount of prison would have bothered me and why it won't bother me one bit if they all get raped while in jail.

    They refused to admit their crimes, set about to destroy and torture their victim for 4 years....they rolled the dice for the final time and lost. Boo hoo.

  29. Linda says:

    I read in the book "I, Claudius" about a mother whose daughter poisoned her own husband and then conspired to dethrone the emperor. The mother reported her daughter's crimes and was allowed to choose her punishment. The mother locked the daughter into the room next to her own and starved the girl to death there, where the screams and wails were her own punishment for raising such a monster.

    Pity Haidl Sr. didn't have that kind of fortitude.

  30. Sean says:

    Excellent posts Allison and CAS and nice analogy Linda.

    For Steve, words cannot describe how I felt when I read your post. You constantly state jane doe was a "slut" yet you describe the boys as "studs". In reference to your examples of male/female teachers having sex with their students. I don't know if you remember this, but Mary Kay LeTorneau had sex with her student and she was given jail time.
    You wrote about the girl being 16 and being promiscuous and how that is a reflection of her parents and her upbringing. Well, I don't know what generation you are from but children (and i do call them children) are having sex at a much younger age. I am 26 and I spoke to my younger cousin, 15, a year ago and was giving him the "talk" since he has no father. I asked him about sex and if he's done it and he said no. But, he said all of his friends had and "everyone" was doing it. Times have definitely changed even when I was his age. So, should we blame ALL of their parents? When you have kids or if you do and KNOW what exactly is going on their lives, you decide...

  31. CAS says:

    What amazes me is they are all still lying.

    They had the nerve to tell the media they would have accepted a plea agreement way back when and Don had the nerve to tell the judge his asshole son wanted to
    'man up'....

    But thankfully the DA went public with the fact that..surprise, surpise, it was Greg and Don who refused a plea deal before the second trial...

    Well, Greg is going to have to 'man up' now for sure.

  32. Robert says:

    You know what I cant beleive is that people have actually defended these boys. I am from Alta Loma, born and raised. I went to school with all the people involved, Hell, Kyle's older brother Adam was in my class. I was amazed that all these young people actually were backing these guys up. They drugged and raped a girl. There is no other explanation. It does not matter if she was a slut, had slept with all of them before, THEY DRUGGED HER AND RAPED HER. Maybe, if they hadnt started this circus in the first place, hired sleeze ball attorney's (Cavallo), and denied, denied, denied, this whole thing would have passed by now. But, they didn't. They tried everything they could to get out of this. I mean they harassed the Jane Doe and the other witnesses, spread lies, did all this horrible things. If they had owned up to it in the first place, they probably could have got off with Juvi and Probation. But No, they lowered themselves to the level of scum, and they deserve everything they have coming to them.

  33. Adam says:

    Hey, Steve. Being a sexually active 16 yo girl is bad parenting, but what the three boys did is not a result of bad parenting? What deeper issues result in pool cues being shoved into bodily orifices of an unconscious person?

    Missed that one, sorry. Idiot.

  34. soopermouse says:

    maxine
    you are a blithering idiot. I am very close to wishing anice rape on yourself to see how fast you recover.

  35. Allison says:

    We all get quite emotional just reading what others opinions are. However, wishing a crime on to someone that we view as less then ourselves, just because of their opinion, makes us no better than the original criminals. The wonderful thing about America is that we all have the right to our opinion, even if others think it is full of ignorance, stupidity or just plain hatred.
    I am not religious. I do not go to church and I do not pray. But I do try to remind myself that I am human and no better than anyone else. Sometimes I make good choices and sometimes I make some pretty bad ones. I think the men of this crime should be punished but I cannot bring myself to wish punishment on another member of society just for having what I feel is a nasty opinion. That makes me no better than Haidl. But it sure is hard not to think in the negative....

  36. Halfmad says:

    In fact, why don't you read a transcript?
    http://pandagon.net/2006/03/14/she-wanted-it/

    Here's a nice preview for you:

    "Doe lies seemingly lifeless. The boys toss Doe on her stomach. They use the pool stick on her vagina, anus and then on her vagina again. Doe does not so much as flinch, but begins peeing on herself; a puddle spreads on the pool table. There is laughter and giggling."


    Yes, no doubt. Just youthful hijinx. Surely, we all did exactly the same to our friends in high school!

    People who excuse this behavior are evil.

  37. Robert says:

    You know if any of the people that are backing the haidl 3 up ever saw the video, their story would be a lot different. It was horrific, what they did to that girl was unspeakable. It was sicking.

  38. Doug says:

    Maxine, when YOU get drugged and gangbanged by three overindulged teenage boys and have various household objects inserted into YOUR orifices, THEN it can be your decision as to whether to "forgive or forget." You can also make the decision as to whether to just not "dwell" on the whole thing, since blotting an incident like this out of your mind is apparently a cinch.

    Otherwise, though, you'd do well to stop embarrassing yourself in public by minimizing this crime. For the life of me I can't figure out what makes you think you have ANY idea what this girl went through.

  39. Zen Kim says:

    What struck me throughout this whole sordid, disgusting case was a weird feeling of deja vu....

    Flashback to New Jersey in the 1980s. An eighteen-year-old girl is enticed by a male classmate to his place with the promise that he will set her up with a date with the football team captain. She follows him to his house and into the basement, where she is gang raped, sodomized, penetrated with objects -- including a bat, a broomstick, and a dirty dowel rod -- and forced to masturbate herself and several boys. After the ordeal, the girl testified to being in so much pain that "it hurt to go to the bathroom."

    For over a week afterwards, the gang rapists bragged in school about what they had done to the girl, until finally the principal looked into the matter and called in the police to investigate the rumors. Eventually, all the gang rapists were arrested and put on trial.

    An open and shut case, yes? The victim had suffered pain and torment, and the suspects had all voluntarily admitted to gang raping her. But that's where the story becomes tragically ridiculous:

    * The girl was mentally retarded. She was known to be sexually active and promiscuous, as she lacked the ability to control her natural urges. This was used by the defense to downplay the seriousness of the gang rape -- in other words, she was a slut who wanted it anyway.

    * The gang rapists were all members of the school football team and came from affluent middle-class families. They were used to being treated as being above the rest, and were even given the blind eye by the local police when they got a little too wild. As the main defense attorney put it, "Boys will be boys."

    * The girl had voluntarily gone with the first boy into the basement, and at no point during the gang rape did she say "no" or "stop" -- which the defense argued was proof that the boys had her consent. This flies in the face of the rape laws, which require that a person be conscious *and* mentally capable of giving consent (the girl had the mind of a four-year-old child, according to her doctor) in order for sex to be deemed consensual.

    * Here's the final insult: The trial ended with convictions for the gang rapists, yet the judge gave all of them *suspended sentences* -- meaning that none of the defendants would serve time. This essentially made the convictions meaningless!

    For me (I lived on the East Coast when the above happened) it was like a bizarre, sick time warp to watch the Haidl gang rape trial unfold, all the time feeling outraged at all the stunts being pulled by the defense (she's a slut, she wanted it, she didn't say no!) and helpless to do anything about what I thought would be the inevitable conclusion -- that all of the defendants would get off.

    News of the Haidl Three's convictions and sentences has apparently proven me wrong, and I won't complain! Yet I still have the unpleasant feeling that when justice prevails in America, it happens in *spite* of the justice system, and not because of it.

  40. CAS says:

    Oh Jesus Christ, these guys and their lawyers and their families all deserve to be in prison.

    Forget about the most vicious rape defense in OC, let's talk about maybe the most vicious, disgusting, Orwellian rape defense in modern history.

    This girl was 16, these guys took her dignity, her body and then, just for good measure they kept it all up for four years.

    Anyone who has an ounce of sympathy for these three rapists is a moron.

    IF they had admitted their guilt at the outset and not lied and tried to convince a bunch of idiot jurors that this girl who looked and acted unconscious was really NOT unconscious then they might be deserving of some sympathy and some leniency.

    But that isn't what they did, what they did was make the most fantastic claim imaginable, that the rag doll like, limp, eyes closed, flopping around, falling over, hitting her head on the coach, urinating on herself girl was ACTING the whole time!

    That is far, far beyond unforgivable.

    Whatever happens to these guys in prison they will deserve it.

    Four years later and their lawyers finally admit the girl was unconscious? They should all be facing legal sanctions in my opinion.

  41. alex lopex says:

    I cannot finish reading the transcript, I cannot stomach the actions of these young men. As a parent it destroys me. These people who pass this off as "no big deal" are obviuously void of heart and conscience. Wether you choose sides or not, just reading the transcripts, you have to feel for that young woman and what she wnent through. She never, ever consented to being someones porn fuck doll. There is only ONE victim here. But maybe while in prison, there might be 3 more.

  42. CAS says:

    I actually think this case was much worse than the one in Glenn Ridge.

  43. caryn says:

    yes i'm vindictive...i hope some of their prisonmates find out that greg is the son of a cop. plus with those baby faces i'm sure they'll be holding the inside of someone's pockets in no time!

  44. sarah says:

    Unbelievable! It's crazy to think about what Haidl's family did to try and keep him out of prison. Justice was served. Thank God for the videotape.

  45. sarah says:

    ALso, one more thing...
    This case is sad and all for Jane Doe. In fact, had the videotape not been found, no one would ever had found out about all of this. Sounds like she had some self esteem and sleeping around issues to begin with...

    BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT.

    This case is about the boys. Imagine if they had gotten away with doing something like this. I guarantee you that down the road, this would have happened again to someone else. People who do disgusting and illegal things to another uncounsious human being (regardless of her sexual history) need to be held accountable for it.

    Just because a girl has a bad reputation shouldn't give a free pass for kids to insert objects in her and rape her for fun "because they can".

    Bottom line - these boys weren't taught to stand for what is right.

    I believe that in the end the only kid who seemed to take any responsibility for what he did was Nachreiner.

    Now, everyone can get on with their lives. I agress, OC weekly needs to start writing about something else.

  46. Robert says:

    You know what, these boys did not learn a damn thing until they were looking at jail time. All the way until they were foud guilty, My Sister (Which is the girl that found the tape and turned it in) was being harassed by the friends and families involved in this trial. Little bastards had the nerves to call her out numerous times at restuarants (Terry's Burger) and say all kinds of things to her. I have no sympthy for these guys. They never showed remorse until they realized they were screwed. So no, has someone that involved in this trial, and had to numerous times protect my sister from these bastards (Because she has the courage to stand and say this isnt right, im turning the tape in), they deserve everything they have coming to them.

  47. Fae says:

    You actually said "Forgive and forget."

    How dare you. How DARE you.

    You say that Jane Doe will be fine, that she'll make a lot of money from a civil trial, and that she needs to move on.

    Why is money even an issue here? Is that ALL that matters? Forget that someone was violated, forget that actual feelings and emotions are involved, MONEY can make that better? I don't even know where to begin with that.

    You should be thanking God every day that you have had such a life that you've never had to deal with any type of tragedy that comes close to the pain of a rape, and allows you to voice that opinion and still look at yourself in the mirror everyday.

    There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, that even comes close to what this girl had to go through. And nothing can make that better. Not money, not anything else. Forgive and forget? If by some amazing miracle, she has more grace than the rest of us and finds it in herself to forgive everyone, including these boys, for what they have done to her: maybe we can aspire to be more like that. But trust me on this, she will NEVER forget.

    They call the process after a rape greif because that's what it is. You lose something in a tragedy like this that nothing can bring back to you. No matter how hard you try, there is no way.

    I've heard the argument that "she was unconcious, she can't remember what happened to her." IT DOESN'T MATTER. The nightmares are proof, your imagination can fill in the holes your memory misses. And if that wasn't enough, she had to watch the tape. Can you even imagine having to sit there and watch what was done to you while you couldn't help or defend yourself?

    After everything this girl has been through, how can you possibly expect her to be able to go back to living a normal life? Because she'll have money? That's absolutely disgusting.

    It's a sad world that we live in today, when people can actually think things as serious as this violation are minor offenses, and that money can cure all hurts. God help us to become more compassionate to suffering and less wrapped up in the material aspects of life.

  48. Darryl says:

    Dumb fucks should have taken the plea deal the DA offered.but Don Haidl told his son no after the son told the father to get rid of the lawyers and just man up for what he did.

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