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Comments (28)

1. Aaruni says:
   April 17, 2008 13:22

   Shawn Nelson is running for re-election right now, too!

2. Alex Banderas says:
   April 17, 2008 21:27

   There are several murals at the Lemon bridge, many have been defaced by out of town gang members (the word ANAHEIM often appears spray painted over the murals). I'm a proud Chicano and insulted by some of the murals. I especially support the removal of the mural that reads FULLERTON TOKERS TOWN before some innocent person looses their life from a drive by shooting from an FTT gang member in retaliation of the mural that should never have been allowed to be placed on public property in the first place. I support the City Council's efforts to keep and preserve the good ones and remove the wrong ones.

3. Gustavo Arellano says:
   April 17, 2008 21:48

   Alex: Which mural originally claims Tokers Town?

4. sharon kennedy says:
   April 17, 2008 22:22

   To clear up a few things:
   1) The consideration is whether to restore them or remove them. The beautiful color shots of the mural in the video are not what they look like today. They could be restored but now they are faded from having grafitti washed off numerous times over the years.
   2) Mayor Quirk is setting up a meeting with neighbors to see what they think about the murals. She was NOT in agreement with councilmember Shawn Nelson as it appears in the video. She said nothing will be done until everyone has had a chance to discuss the issue. She also said that the real issue goes beyond the murals to what the city can offer kids as an alternative to joining gangs. This issue was brought to light by the recent murder of a 15 year old by an Anaheim gang member.

5. Gustavo Arellano says:
   April 17, 2008 22:32

   Sharon: I don't think anyone blames Mayor Quirk in this, nor do I think the video puts her in a bad light.

   I pass by the murals on a regular basis and, while not bright, also aren't as decrepit as your comment makes them out to be. It is unfortunate that idiots would tag on them, though.

   Finally, Nelson never mentioned ANYTHING about restoration. He wanted them gone ASAP. It's arrogant to dictate by opinion, no?

6. Alex Banderas says:
   April 17, 2008 22:33

   Gustavo, Look at the mural of the career women (on your video) and click pause. Then look at the mural below it, see "TOKERS TOWN". I could post a picture of what it usually looks like after Anaheim homies get theirs? This may have lead to the murder of an innocent Troy High School student athlete.

7. Gustavo Arellano says:
   April 17, 2008 22:48

   Gotta admit, where you say it says a gang name, I see a blur. Not only that, but the older pictures of that exact mural don't contain those words--I suspect defacing. Get rid of that shit--but everything else is innocuous. And it's not my video--it's someone else's fine video.

8. Dave Choi says:
   April 17, 2008 22:54

   How the hell did I become the experiment? I bought my house two blocks from this eye sore and it is no joy to be around. How would virtually any Orange County resident like all this at the end of his or her street? Anyone that says this does not cheapen the neighborhood is either drunk or ignorant. Kick this Nelson guys ass all you want but he has a point. I can live with the religious symbols but the gang stuff has to go.

9. Gustavo Arellano says:
   April 17, 2008 23:01

   Dave: I'm not sure if you're a newbie to north Orange County or just relocating, but I'm a lifer--am from Anaheim, but been crossing that mural my entire life, whether to see films at the AMC 10 (now 20) or taking Lemon to Valencia to eat at Taqueria de Anda. Those murals are history--fuck the tagging, but the murals are gold. And please tell us what's gangster about them--can you tell us their history? If you want dull, Aliso Viejo has many vacancies at this point.

10. Dave Choi says:
    April 17, 2008 23:34

    Gustavo,

    Maybe you havent been to Fullerton since the early 90's but the Korean community is becoming a very significant portion of the population.

11. Rich Kane says:
    April 17, 2008 23:38

    What Gustavo said! I pass by those murals at least once a week on my way to Costco, and my old college magazine, the Fullerton College Torch, once featured them prominently on the cover when someone wrote a story about them (this would've been about 1991 or so). They need to be restored, not destroyed. Art doesn't kill people, people.

12. Gustavo Arellano says:
    April 17, 2008 23:45

    Good non-sequitur there, Dave--what does the fact that a lot of Koreans now live in Fullerton have to do with the Lemon Street murals? And not only do I know that Koreans live in Fullerton, but I also know that Grace Korean Church sits on the site once occupied by Hunt's-Wesson, where my mom worked for nearly 30 years. Tell us your favorite Hunt's memory, Dave--prove your Fullerton roots!

13. Anonymous says:
    April 18, 2008 00:02

    I believe that murals "ART" on public places should depict all the community, not just a select group of activist.

14. Gustavo Arellano says:
    April 18, 2008 00:05

    Alex aka Dave aka anon: Our records show the same IP address for y'all--if you're all different people and using the same computer, say so. Otherwise, we consider this sock puppetry, and we have no use for such pussies. Consider yourself warned.

    To anon's point: Geez, have some respect for those who came before you. Next thing you know, you'll want to rename Bastanchury 'cause Basques don't live in Fullerton anymore. LAME.

15. dave Choi says:
    April 18, 2008 00:20

    Sitting at Starbucks Harbor and Chapman. Come on down and join us.

16. Sharon Kennedy says:
    April 18, 2008 10:09

    Gustavo - Nelson's idea that the murals should be removed without any discussion is typical of the disdain in which he commonly treats the public. No one has actually polled the neighborhood and the community meeting being pulled together by Mayor Quirk has not happened yet. Meanwhile what are some ideas about what can be offered kids instead of gang membership?

17. shawn nelson says:
    April 18, 2008 10:45

    Gustavo,

    Not only do I have no disdain for the public but it was the public that asked us to do something about the murals. I have certainly failed to be clear that not all the murals are seen by the neighbors as problematic and, in fact, it maybe a select few items within the murals that they have trouble with. I have no problem admitting I could have chosen my words more carefully. As for the community meeting, I agreed to meet with members of the community, Dr. Richard Ramirez and others. Our Mayor, Sharon Quirk will also be at the meeting that is referenced in Ms. Kennedy's post. With the help of the people in the area I have no doubt that we can accommodate the neighbors that are demanding change. Our own Mayor, a hispanic woman who grew up in the area has indicated to me she has always been offended by the particular mural that has the skull and sunburst look to it stating "come again soon".

18. Gustavo Arellano says:
    April 18, 2008 11:16

    Shawn and others: the conversation continues here.

19. Shelli says:
    April 20, 2008 15:07

    It seems to me that the real issue, graffiti, is being overlooked here. The murals are right where they belong, our city needs to make more of an effort to protect them. After reading this blog, I believe we have our first volunteer, Shawn. You have offered to meet just about everyone there to assess the damage and point out the flaws of the beautiful murals of Fullerton. Perhaps you could just quit your day job and stand guard?

20. Neil says:
    April 21, 2008 14:45

    Don't touch the murals.

    I don't live in Fullerton anymore, but I'll be asking everyone I know that does to vote against Shawn Nelson. He does not get what it means to be a Fullertonian.

    Anyone who is so distant and out of touch with the community that they are supposed to be "leading" needs to simply get out of the way. And for the neighbors that don't get it ... Mr. Nelson should've been able to educate them on the significance of the Hispanic tradition and contributions in Fullerton. That would've been leadership.

    As a white kid, born and raised in Fullerton, I always craned my neck to take in the fascinating artwork on the bridge. Despite Nelson's divisive remarks, "The Town I Live In" means it's everyone's town, our town. At least it always has to me ...

21. kanani says:
    April 25, 2008 00:49

    Dave, Nothin' worse than a multi-handler. Are we to expunge every aspect of historical diversity because of the rise of Koreans in our community? I mean, are telling me that you want it like Irvine --no history, not even a cemetery?
    Sorry, but Irvine is not where you bought.

22. Cynthia Nieto Gulley says:
    April 25, 2008 20:21

    # Dave Choi says:
    April 17, 2008 22:54

    How the hell did I become the experiment? I bought my house two blocks from this eye sore and it is no joy to be around. How would virtually any Orange County resident like all this at the end of his or her street? Anyone that says this does not cheapen the neighborhood is either drunk or ignorant. Kick this Nelson guys ass all you want but he has a point. I can live with the religious symbols but the gang stuff has to go.

    Dear Mr Choi, my parents bought their house in 1967 and they still live there. ONE BLOCK AWAY FROM "THIS EYE SORE" Hey guess what I am one of the muralists!
    If you think that this cheapens the the neighborhood then WHY DID YOU BUY A HOUSE THERE???????????

23. Peter Sanchez says:
    May 9, 2008 16:36

    Gustavo,

    You are a very entertaining blogger, but keep on message brother. Murals are a very significant part of the Hispanic culture and has little or nothing to do with gang or criminal activities of any kind. However, the mural in question is consistently defaced and tagged by gangs. So a discussion on the mural is not unwarranted.

    Also, you are way off base with the Koreans or Grace Korean Church somehow compelling Hunts to leave the city of Fullerton. Hunts left long before Grace Korean Church ever even thought of purchasing the property. And blaming them is about as rational as blaming John Kerry. After all, his wife's family owned Hunts.

    And I can prove my roots in Fullerton brother. My favorite memory is driving down Gilbert or Commonwealth and seeing those huge semis come into the Hunts factory with loads of tomatoes. The sea of red. That was always a nice sign of the times. I am sorry your mother lost her job at Hunts, but it had nothing to do with Grace Korean Church or the Korean community. It is called consolidation and in business it translates to jobs lost.

    Also, people thinking putting Latino youngsters to work in a restaurant Shawn Nelson might wish to open would stop gang activity are silly. What does learning how to be a bartender have to do with stopping gang violence or participation? That is a very odd suggestion that really dumbs down the argument of culture and income and why gangs have taken a hold in a city like Fullerton, which by the way has just as many Asian gangs as Latino (and no one talks about that).

    Lastly, keep blogging Gustavo. It is good stuff. And Sharon Kennedy: love your paper babe.

    PS
    Fullerton with Pride

24. Gustavo Arellano says:
    May 9, 2008 17:14

    Peter: Gracias for visiting but your comments are all screwy. Where did I say Grace Korean "compelled" Hunt's to move? It was NAFTA who did that, not the church--have proof I said that? And you might want to look up John Kerry's wife's name--it's Teresa HEINZ, and it wasn't her family who owned Heinz--she married into it. Care to comment?

25. Peter Sanchez says:
    May 9, 2008 17:43

    Gustavo,

    Damn, you got me on the Hunts/Heinz thing. It's ketchup. Comes in a red bottle. My bad on the mix up.

    But you did jump down that Dave Choi fella pretty hard bro about your mom and Hunts and Grace Korean Church, calling him out like that. You took it off topic brother that is all I am trying to point out to you.

    Keep it on message: Murals are vital to the culture of a community and go beyond mere historical significance.

    Love the work bro. Keep the vibe alive babe.
    

26. Peter Sanchez says:
    May 9, 2008 17:49

    Also, in Dave Choi and Shawn Nelson's defense (sort of), I doubt either of them have a clue what "The Town I Live In" is. They probably both misspoke and thought it was some Mexican gang sign, when it is a really good Thee Midnighters track.

    The whole bridge is a snapshot of the Latino community and should be celebrated properly in a dignified manner.

    PS
    Fullerton with Pride

27. baxter says:
    May 9, 2008 20:09

    Peter Sanchez, may I call you babe? :) Perhaps we define what an “Ax to grind means” differently. I think of it to mean that one has lost all ability to be objective because you feel that someone has done you a personally wrong. It’s akin to revenge. If you are in tune with local politics you will now that there are plenty of axes being ground in Fullerton (e.g. Bushala Brothers vs Doug Chaffee). I on the other hand simply disagree with Nelson on many of the key issues facing Fullerton. The last time he ran for office the majority of this money came from developers, I do not think it is out of line to call them his cronies. You read my posts so will have noticed that I actually gave him credit for agreeing to meet with members of the neighborhood not something I would do if I were wielding an axe. He has since stated that he regrets his comments, and I also give him credit for that. My goal is not to bash Nelson, I was just one of the first people to call bullshit on his plan to cover up the murals in a letter to the Observer days after his comment was made. If he is now coming to his senses it’s a good thing.

    Lets face it, his comments were arrogant, ethnocentric and out of touch, so don’t give me and others shit for our tone while calling him out on it.

    Btw …you are correct about the Observer being a great local paper, you are wrong about Dave’s restaurant idea being silly. We can address development, and how to be smart about it at a different time.

    Time to get off the fence, Rodger?

    -bax
    

28. Gustavo Arellano says:
    May 10, 2008 08:18

    Folks: Comments closed--continue the conversation over here. Peter: you're paranoid. I never switched the topic (and if I did, what of it?) by mentioning Grace Korean. It was Dave who introduced them--all I said was that the only thing Korean I knew about Fullerton was Grace.