THIS GUY IS NUTS! Who the hell says this sort of stuff?

This sort of thing gives us a very bad name. I'm a Southern Baptist and I know of NO ONE who would agree with Rev. Drake, even though I did not vote for nor do I agree with Obama's policies. We are commanded in scripture to pray for our gov't leaders, as they are put in place/removed by our sovereign God.

Hilda, I'm glad you're not all as crazy as him. But to say your sovereign God puts all elected leaders in place and takes them out... well that's pretty damn crazy too. Did God kill Kennedy and Lincoln? Did God cast the decision in the Supreme Court that said George W. Bush won the presidency?

Southern Baptists are nuttier than squirrel shit.

While not as blunt as Roe, I totally agree with the statement. God gave people free-will, as is written. Yet so many Christians just LOVE to throw that free-will to the side and saate that everything is done by the hand of God if something is good. And if something bad happens, it was Satan.

Not everything is so black and white.

Where does it say in the Bible to pray that your enemies will die? It says, pray "for your enemies, and when they are hungry feed them, when naked clothe them." Kill them with kindness, not bullets, and this type of prayer is not following Jesus.

This supposed Christian needs to read the Sermon on the Mount and start living it.

...nuttier than squirrel shit ...

I'll second that.

What a lousy excuse for a human being that Rev is. Shame.

Does he say this prayer before or after they play with the snakes???

Here's my prayer:

Lord, please let me be there when Reverend Drake meets Dr. Tillman in heaven. Besides seeing Your face one day, I REALLY want to see the Reverend's face right at that moment.

And Lord, in the meantime, could You please bestow some gonads upon Alan Colmes?

Amen.

Instead of being in Iraq and Afghanistan, our army should be fighting the religious terrorists here in our own country. Scum like this sickens me.

The extremists in the Christian Taliban deserve our disgust just as much as their Islamic-extremist brethren. They both hate our laws. They hate our freedom. The pray and wish for the death of law-abiding people. They commit acts of terror against lawful businesses, they kill law-abiding citizens. All in the name of God, Zeus, Jesus, Allah, or Ra, or whatever other fairies in the sky they believe in.

Love your enemies and pray for those ... that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. Matthew 5

Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them? ... Jesus turned and rebuked them ... Luke 9

People with imaginary friends and who believe the very best thing that can happen is the destruction of the entire earth shouldn't be given such attention.

If we must be exposed to what a nutcase things, I'd much rather listen to a homeless schizophrenic arguing with his long dead father than this shit.

It is men like this man together with Hanity, Rush, Lara Ingram, Bill O Riley, that is spreading hate in america. I think it is time we take them off the Air.

Bubba states that this particular reverend is spreading hate. With this, I agree. The Bible states we are to pray for those in authority, for them to lead in a just manner or that God would take them out of office, meaning in the next election, not by death. This pastor is definitely on the fringe of Christianity. However, regarding bubba's comment that Hannity and Rush are spreading hate, he is way off the mark. I know from listening to them daily that they want the President to head in another direction. Is this so different than the left wing when Republicans are in office? And as for taking them off the airwaves, does the constitutional rights only apply to the liberal left? I heard plenty negative talk on the airwaves when we have had Republican presidents. And on the other hand, I have heard both Hannity and Rush bash W. when he strayed from the Republican parties' platform. They aren't spreading hate. They are commenting on public policies that are straying from the Republican parties' platform that is based on conservative principles. This is why they will negatively discuss both parties' actions when they are leaning way too left. I respect all peoples' views but do not agree with all peoples' views. This is the premise that the talk show hosts comments are based on. Republican or Democrat, if the policies' are too far left of conservative views, they comment. That is not spreading hate. It is bringing another point of view to the table. This is why America is so great. We can speak out without fear of retribution, liberal or conservative! As I said before,the liberal left have spoke out against policies they disagreed with just as the conservative right has spoke out against policies they disagreed with. I am proud wI live in a country where lively discourse is not only allowed, but encouraged.

This is a classic example of how satan who appears to be an angel of light has penatrated the church.

Rev. Drake is simply this: a hate-filled old-school racist who hides behind the Bible and twists Scripture to rationalize his worldview. The only thing that distinguishes him from Stephen Johns is, Johns pulled the trigger.

"Religion is all bunk." - Thomas Alva Edison

Moore proof Mr. Edison was right.

It is so sad to see this kind of Racist Lunacy which is obviously still in the heads of a vast majority of white Americans hiding behind Religion to propagate it. Put Senator Bilbo from Mississippi into a search machine and read what WASP has made an "American Christian" tradition. When I checked my "Handbook" the last time, I couldnt find any reference on how to pray for God to take a life that he created.

Thanks for giving Athiest and Agnostics yet another reason to not beleive.

God has nothing to do with this. It is free will in motion. Please ignore the so called "Christians" that refuse to be Christ like. There will be much fewer people in Heaven than they think. Depart from me for I never knew you.

The parables in the new testement describe the church as a Wheat Field, and Jesus said in Matthew 13:25 that there will be 'tares' (false christians) among the 'wheat' (real christians) in the churches, and at the end of the world He will send His harvesters (angels) to seperate the wheat from the tares and throw the tares into the fire (death). So reverend Drake will be thrown to his death.

I am outraged by these ludacris comments. This is a proof in itself that God does not exist, otherwise comments like those would never be said. I just hope that people will be turned off by such heinous and despicable comments and drop religion and faith. Religion only leads to hatrid.

this is strange and sad at the same time. however, all of you using this as an excuse 'not' to believe in Jesus Christ and God ... you too are being deceived. just because a person misuses the Bible and twists religious views does not mean God is not real. please read the Bible for yourself and find out the truth. Don't govern your life by the actions of a few crazies. God is real. He loves you and His word is real, true and can be a blessing to your life.

When George Bush started the Iraq war on a lie, and thousands of soldiers died for NOTHING... and many came home with missing limbs and some without a face, for NOTHING... did reverend Drake pray for Bush's death? HELL NO THAT FREAK DIDN'T!!!

Sheesh... it is hate filled losers like him that making people hate this country ...I am glad I am leaving the United States of Assholes for good in a couple of weeks...good riddance!

I agree with "Rebel". I can't stand the thought of raising my children in such hateful environment...it is so sad....I have decided to leave the US to raise my children elsewhere. I am afraid for this country...

I went to school with Southern Baptists in the south and of course I come here, nothing has changed and that is why I do not like faiths like these and those that spew forth hate venom, they are so ignorant

It doesn't say anywhere in God's Word to pray for someone's death. This Reverend doesn't know the scriptures, and he doesn't know God or His heart. God wants everyone to come to know Him including Obama and all of you who don't believe.

Christ died so that you, if you accept Him and what He did for you on the cross, would have a close intimate relationship with God. He really loves even those that hate Him.

I took my time to read most of the comments posted, and I can tell you that most of you are living in denial. The reason you're so shocked at what the vermin said is because you never took the time to read history and find out what happened to the slaves in the South. Please pick up any letter from a runaway slave and you'll find out that the christians were the most hateful of their slaves.
This is nothing new. Until you all have the courage to denounce even some of your fore fathers as ignorant and evil, you'll continue to act shocked once such vitriolic rants or acts appear. You cannot be fair until you have courage to judge your own first. Can't you not tell that many christians do not really care about the unborns or gay marriage? It's all about power. The funny thing is that I am a christian, or so I think.

Though this individual says things that I don't see Jesus saying. He is just as radical as the "re. Wright" with his speech. I think we should read the book of James and be slow to speak and anger. If more would read this book the impact would be life changing. I as a christian will continue to pray for this country. I hope we all turn from our wicked ways, and turn our eyes back to Jesus.

Ban religion! All religious affirmations are evil!

These right wing nutjobs need to be hunted down and killed . . . slowly.

It's not even that Wiley Drake has made this and other....oh interesting and completely insane comments over his tenure on this planet. What's even scarer and concerns me even more is that he has a following, a considerable following who listen and actually BELIEVE every word this 'Wack-job' spews out of his mouth. With luck he'll get a flat in Santa Ana somewhere around 2:00 am and a couple of 'Homies' will take care of the whole problem...but than there is the entire congregation left to it's own devices. Let's just all hope for a well placed and better timed Meteor strike/event, durning Sunday services of course...wipe out the whole lot in one 'Celestial' event, (better than that 'Crying' Statue the Catholics lug around). That sure would put all the other religious zealots, groups, orders and congregations on 'Devine' notice.

God did NOT say that you fat Nazi pig, and you know it!

Stop hiding behind that copy of Mein Kampf you have with a bible jacket over the cover.

Oh, and he also ran for vice president - guess which party?

I feel this is sad I know all lot of people struggling with faith an which side of the fence they are on. God states we are to be fishers of men and one of the 10 commandments thou shall not kill this man not reverand. Whom could not have possibly gone to any seminary college is in the sam catergory as a zealous Muslim Cleric shouting deaf to America. I hope he is on an terror watch list with his fellow whore mongers such as David Duke, North Korea Mr Il,
Rush that good company. I also his legacy is the same as Hitler, STALAN, BECKWITH,

He is a classic example of why the teaching of Paul in 2 Tim 2:15 (Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, brightly dividing the word of truth.) is so important. We all know that this man is not a follower of Jesus Christ and the god he is praying to about these people is not the One in the Bible.

Personally, I am not praying for his death at all.

However, I am praying that he will be impeached since he continues to violate his powers of President of the United States of American. His job is to defend the constitution of the United States, and to uphold the position of president. He is not a dictator. But that is now the power it appears he is going after. He wants every one bending down to him. He has too long over stepped his power as President.

God Save America from the leftist Democratic Party of America.

And All God's People said,
Amen!

Kevin, really.. seriously...
You may disagree with him attempting to make the country work more for the people over corporations and businesses, and you may ignore real reason to impeach a president, like the abuses of the executive constitutional authority that happened under Bush, but Obama hasn't done anything remotely worthy of being impeached. Because you disagree with him, does not mean he's the one that's wrong. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

1 Timothy 2:1-2 (NKJV)

Please pray for those in authority. Pray that they turn their hearts to God in order to live a peaceable life.

Kevin:

There is nothing in the Constitution that says YOU always have to win. Obama has done nothing to violate the Constibution. All he did was win a free, open, legal, election by a wide margin.

Were you so eager to defend the Constitution when Mr. "I'm #2" was shoved down our throats by a bunch of activist Supreme Court Justices - some appointed by his dad and all from his party? Try reading the Constitution someday and you might know what it means to live in the United States of America instead of the Confederacy (they lost).

Drake and Falwell will have all etrnity to commiserate with each other in hell over the fallacies of their ways. This person is not even in the same ZIP as Christianity. He is a sorry excuse for anything living. Religion is indeed for the ignorant and lazy.

This is his cell phone number tell him what you think:
714 865 8132

Who made this man God?

HE'S NOT EVEN A PASTOR!

Spreding hate under the guise of religion. Typical thumper.

And on the 8th day, She created stupid, and there stood Wiley "The Snake" Drake, the "Leader" of the right wing Orange County maggots. They bowed, and followed, and became the joke (along with George W.) of the entire nation. March proudly with that "L" on your foreheads, you LOSERS...

This is why some African-Americans believes that certain religions are from a white mans view. However, I dont know how he interpets the bible in that way. I'm not going to put much energy in crazy people like this. The scary thing about this is he really believes this. Sounds like WITCH-CRAFT and nothing to do with GOD's love and mercy. I will pray mercy for enimies like him.

People like Wiley Drake do not have any effect on my belief or disbelief in God. There is enough scientific evidence to contradict most of what the Bible says. Take the scientific evidence, add a little logic and reason, actually think about things rather than accept what you have always been told, and you will come to the same conclusion. There is no God. God is a concept that was created by ancient people to explain the existence and nature of the universe. We no longer need God to explain the universe. In fact, the existence of God would at this point require much more explanation than the existence of the universe. If God had never been invented, then we would have much less hatred, war and death in the world. I just hope that eventually the human species will evolve past their need to believe in God.

Strangely, I am born again Christian and also a registered Democrat. Why? Because I believe the Love and compassion that Christ stood for is better represented by that party than the other. There are things I agree with the other party but overall I believe Christ is better represented by the Democrats. Still I believe in the Word of God. I believe it lives and is understood in Faith. The problem that Anonymous is struggling(or not)with is that the message of the Word is revealed in Faith and not by science. You must truly believe in God to understand it. Without the element of Faith it would be very difficult for Anonymous to understand. I personally struggle with folks that make really broad and very opinionated statements without having had the experience. Once you have had an experience with Christ then tell me about your opinons. Even science would teach you not to make conclusions until you've gotten the facts. Get the facts. There is no way that you can tell me that my life changing experience with God is not real. It is documented. I will agree it is true that misled and misguided Christians have left their faith by attaching worldly and political ideas to something that is perfect and have corrupted it. But that is not the message of Christ. Christ teaches us to "render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's". Our vote is rendered unto Cesar, our hearts are rendered unto the Lord. Christ is neither Democrat or Republican and no political ideaology represents him no matter how one party, church convention or rogue pastor may think. We must do our best in an imperfect world with imperfect people. That is why he implores us to pray for them. Please do not confuse man's inability to live up to Godly principles and manage his church to a failure of the message or His Word. Take some time and study Faith. It may help.
Blessing. Rev.K.

Lunatics like this, and the pastor in Arizona, the Taliban, Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard, etc., etc., (all the same) reveal to us time and time again, that blood and gore, murder and mayhem are preferred over peace and security, equal rights and equal treatment of all. They live in a Dungeons and Dragons fantasy world where the planet should be a despicable place of misery and inequality, and their fantasy world of young virgins only exists after death. If they are so unhappy on this earth, why don't they just take their own final exit?

rev k: with much respect for you and your opinions, i thought anonymous made a lot of sense. as a former christian who was eventually completely turned away from christianity when i read the bible cover to cover, it occured to me that those who implore one to read it seem disinclined to read it themselves. or they read it and see only the good stuff. or they read the parts their religious leaders tell them to. here's what i saw in the bible(among many other oddities): luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." these are the words of the kinder, gentler "god" whom christians embraced when people started to notice the evil, cruel, heartless, bloodthirsty ways of the old testament god.
in my opinion, people like rev wiley who pray for another's demise because of a difference of opinion, or good ol' rush who stated boldly and emphatically that he wanted obama to fail (in effect wishing for the failure of this country just to prove some silly ego-fueled point) are, indeed, following god's word. the god of the bible is not "good". the senseless bloodshed that drenches the book has been used to justify war, murder, slavery and so much more. anonymous speaks the truth. a mind that hasn't had its ability to reason smudged by the gospel can see religion, the bible and all the other holy books for what they are.

Hmmm, this guy gives Christian values a bad name. Does he even believe the teachings of Christ? He should, if he feels President Obama is erring and in sin, be praying for President Obama to find his way and repent of his sin. That's what a Christian does.

By the way, has anyone considered that what this preacher is doing is unpatriotic? After all, didn't we spend the last 8 years being told that disagreeing with the President was unpatriotic? Guess that only applies if the President agrees with you.

I always wonder what events would make this Country completely lose not only it mind but it soul. When so called chicken and biscuit eating preacher start wishing death on the President of the United States, it is over. They do not care about anything except power. If they cared about taxes and thier children they would have stepped this up when that evil low life punk ass bush was in office with a 3 trillion dollar war and 800 billion in tax cuts for the rich which was borrowed from the Chinese. However not one thing was said by these fake ass right wing rat bastards.

P.S. What sin is this man of lawlessness talking about?

I fear most conservatives in this country. They use God to justify crime and murder and everything else. Liberal are pretty bad too when it comes to the radical side of it but the radical conservatives are far worse. America has the highest religious crime rate in the world and it isn't coming from liberals or non believers. The athiests have become more christ like than 90% of the conservatives in the country. I don't get it, I don't want to get it and I hope to God up above that I never do.

This man is a nutjob. I am a conservative, along with a lot of my family and friends, and none of us would/could ever agree with this man.
Man of God? Scary thought. He doesn't speak for anyone but himself.
God help him

I can't believe a "man of God" would preach "HATE"! I certainly wouldn't want him to be my spiritual leader. I expect a preacher or any person of the cloth to help direct me away from that kind of thinking. He should be held to higher moral standards than the layperson. He is a leader in forgiveness and living as Jesus would. We are taught to forgive/ forget/ and pray for the person who is walking away from the ways of the Lord. We are taught not to hate because it is a sin. Thou shalt not sin is one of our basic commandments. If he can't see that and live by God's law, then he shouldn't be preaching! I will pray that the preacher finds his way BACK to God and away from the sins of the devil. I will also pray that President Obama also is led by God in his decisions and that God will protect us and lead us all into the life that He wants us to live.

I don't necessarily agree with President Obama, but if a preacher is to speak of him wanting the President to die I would walk out of his church and never come back. I am an American and I believe in God! I would never turn my back on my country because so many lives of Americans have been taken to save our liberty! That means I pray the President makes the right decisions for us and our country! Isn't what this "preacher" said a terroristic attack, in a way? I believe so! WE THE PEOPLE, voted President Obama in. Get mad if you want, but this is what I think!! God has his ways and if President Obama was put in to office IT'S GOD'S CHOICE!!!!

To kitty! and the rest of you!
I read that part of the Bible you wrote about! Luke 19:27 and it is a story that is being told! Dont just pick and choose your quotes because they fit into your words read the WHOLE THING!!!!! Before anybody picks quotes out of the bible you should read further before and after that quote to make sure you are not changing the Bible and ..... Please capitalize God's name!?

I am a Christian and I believe in one and only one God. It saddens me to hear people like Rev.Drake make comments like he did and use God as a basis for it. I hope and PRAY that not everyone will group Christians in this category. I do however agree whole-heartedly with "manofmyword" when he addressed "kitty." The passage of scripture she quoted was a parable being told by Christ. We have a tendency to blame God for tragedy's in our life, yet we neglect to give him praise for the triumphs. God does not bestow evil things upon us, but he will let things happen in order to strenghthen us in our faith. This may sound crazy to some or it may sound like God is playing games with us, but think about this for a moment and explain it to me please...For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Why would an uncaring, unloving and unjust God do that for us? Why not wipe the slate clean and start again? I am not one to question God...I choose to accept Him in to my life and thank Him for everything He has given me.

James says that we ought not speak blessings and curses out of the same mouth
(James 3:10). Jesus says in Matthew 5:44 “but I say to you, love your enemies,
bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you, and persecute you”. We are to bless and curse not. This idea of cursing prayer is not of God. Some of the previous posts are right, he has re-created religion to fit his old-school racism and hate.

Having said that, it is sad that atheists point to this pastor and say there is no God, twisting this incedent into their own world view. This is about return to true Christian faith, it is not Christian faith that is on trial, it is the lack of it that is exposed.

This dude ugly ass fuck with dem big ass glasses evil bitch

to manofmyword! and mike: i can appreciate your defense of your faith. if i had reason to believe in god, i would do the same. and you are right; the verse is part of a parable. does that make it any less ugly?

there is much in the bible that is far more unsavory than that quote. take, for example, the destruction, by flood, of every living being on earth because the god who makes no mistakes is sorry he made man. (in genesis 6:7, he actually says so. one of the many things that made me wonder about the veracity of the bible stories.) even innocent children die a horrible death in this dreadful tail. sinners, every one of them. or the story of job, god's loving and devoted servant who was, with god's permission, tortured by satan . god's only caveat: just don't kill him. and then, there's the story of david and bathsheba. a newborn baby is made ill - by god - and eventually dies because god disapproves of david's evil ways and wants him to suffer. are these parables? or are they meant to be taken literally and seriously? they strike me as examples of why the bible should not be used to teach people about goodness.

as i said, i've read the bible. it did not turn me away from being a considerate, loving person. it just made me not believe in god.

unlike you, mike, i see nothing wrong with questioning god and his decisions. that's what i do if something makes no sense to me. i ask questions, do research and expect to find reasonable answers. i do see something wrong with any group, individual or institution that uses fear to keep people in line. that's what religion does.

for the record, i have no problem with people believing in god. but it does bother me, as it bothers you, when anyone uses their faith to espouse and encourage hatred. christianity has been used as a tool for this purpose for a very long time.

as for god sacrificing his son for our sins, there must have been a simpler way to handle that. besides, aren't jesus and god the same being? if so, the plea, "why hath thou forsaken me?" takes on very complex meaning. no, i don't see god's sacrifice of his son as a compassionate act. and no, a loving father wouldn't do that. but in this case, there was no real sacrifice, was there?

furthermore, i can understand why god wouldn't "wipe the slate clean and start again". this perfect god seems not to have gotten it right either time. how odd . . .

btw, manofmyword! please note that i capitalize nothing. it's not a deliberate show of disrespect. i just don't do it.

I got a glimpse of rev. ass face Drake on the news and he not only prays for the presidents death, but also that he goes to hell. If that's not hate I'll kiss your goddamn ass.
Since the rev. don't want Obama as president, then why the hell don't he just pray for his impeachment?

This can be an on going debate I'm sure but again, I feel led to respond to "kitty." Gen 6:7 says...So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." Mankind had basically turned from God at this point. Not every one, and you are right there were children included in the death. Sin was already brought into our lives through Adam and Eve in the Garden. My question for you is this on questioning God...if you have children, how do you feel when they defy you when you are only doing what is best for them. I have 3 myself and when they constantly question my authority I know I get frustrated beyond belief. God gave us a freewill to make our own decisions. I can not even fathom what it must be like for him to see millions of His children turn their backs on Him. As far as Job goes...God let Satan attack Job to a certain point to show his faith in God. What you fail to mention is the fact that in end God blesses him abundantly for his faith. I have looked into this God thing because I don't accept things blindly either. There is way more proof that God is real, not just through the Bible but through scientific discoveries, than proof there is not a God. I will keep you in my prayers Kitty because that is what Christ, who was in fact part of the Trinity that you mentioned, died for. He questioned God in the end because he was in the form of man during that time. He had to be in order to accept the sin of mankind. He experienced doubt just like anyone would have. Matt 26:39 says...Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." This was His prayer at Gethsemane before He was arrested. Again...He had doubt, but He allowed His Fathers will to come first.

mike: you're right. this could go on forever. it's the nature of discussions about religion.

now, you ask how i would feel about being defied by my children. as it happens, i have none. but it doesn't take much to know that i would not deliberately set my children up for failure, having clear and precise knowledge of what they would do in a particular situation, and then punish them for being exactly what i made them to be.

you mention that sin was brought into the world by adam and eve. i'd say that if there is a god, it was he who brought sin into the world. (isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.) he would be as responsible for the ills of the world as he is for the good. if we are his creations, we are what he made us to be, doing what he made us to do.

adam and eve's perceived gift of sin to all humanity represents another of god's strange characteristics; he punishes one for the sins of another. making the same comparison as above, i wouldn't like it if my children defied me. i also wouldn't punish little bobby for what johnny has done. and i wouldn't feel that he deserves to be punished for as long as i can keep the punishment going. it wouldn't be right.

i've often heard people point out that one aspect of god's omnipotence is omniscience. he knows everything; when you'll be born, when and how you'll die, the exact number of hairs on your head, the exact words of your very next thought. everything. these same people speak of god "testing" his children. testing their faith. doesn't that seem strange? if i know all there is to know about you, things that even you haven't discovered about yourself, why would i need to test you? which brings me to your comments about job.

satan's god-sanctioned treatment of job was nothing short of torture. it was unspeakably cruel. i'm sure you've heard of the battered woman syndrome. that's what this resembled, in my opinion. the only difference is that there's a third party administering the nastiness. the story says quite a lot more about god than it says about job. yes, job was god's faithful servant. but for sport, god allowed untold tragedy, pain and misery into this man's life, just so he could show off in front of satan. there was a great show of devotion and loyalty from job, and a not too surprising display of heartlessness from god. the rewards that came after are the godly equivalent of the abusive husband showing up at his wife's bedside with jewelry after he's blackened her eyes and knocked out a few more of her teeth.

i like to think that the stories of the bible, however twisted many of them are, were meant to be examples to steer humans on a clear course of righteousness rather than taken as a recounting of history. that way, it's a little easier to accept a story that says god created two people, gave them all the traits that humans have (curiosity among them), then deliberately put the trees of knowledge and life before them, warned them to stay away from them, sent someone to tempt them, then got mad at them for listening to the only other creature who had ever spoken to either of them. and, god being god, he knew they would do what they did. his actions at this point take on the look of a cat-and-mouse game.

one more thing about adam and eve. children do not always get it that what you do, the demands that you make on them, are all about your loving them and wanting the best for them. lack of life experience keeps them blind to such things for a while. adam and eve were essentially newborns. parents realize that they will have to, in many cases, tell their children more than once to not play in the street, not accept candy from strangers, keep away from the fire, etc. tender, inexperienced adam and eve got one shot, blew it, got kicked out of their home, and we get to take the rap. no do-overs.

you said, "I can not even fathom what it must be like for him to see millions of His children turn their backs on Him." well, he's god. omniscient. all of this, then, is a part of that mysterious "plan" people speak about. we are doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing. exactly what he knew we would do. why would he be upset, surprised or dismayed?

"He questioned God in the end because he was in the form of man during that time. He had to be in order to accept the sin of mankind." again, god=omnipotent. he didn't have to be in human form. he didn't have to do anything he didn't want to do. thus, this torture and death of his "son" was no different from any other in the bible. brutality was god's way, a very special and disturbing part of his character.

it is very kind of you to say you will keep me in your prayers. in print, one can't be sure how such an offer is meant, but in what you've written, you strike me as a good man who lives his life making every effort to do what is pleasing in god's sight. i wish to leave you with this: there are many holy books. the words of each of these books are believed to be the truth by faithful followers of whatever god or faith any one holy book represents. they are believed to be the only truth. do you suppose that a loving god who has given us free will and wants the best for us, could have given us one book, written in one language, that could be understood by everyone, no matter what one's native tongue might be? just something to consider.

mike: sorry! i neglected to sign in and am identified as "anonymous" in the above post.

Thank you, resha, for bringing some sanity to this discussion.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." --- BLAISE PASCAL

I'm surprised that after six months this story hasn't received national coverage. I think the American people should be aware of the fact that a preacher is praying for the Death of Pres. Barack Obama. This way we can have a national outcry against Mr. Drake and more prayers for the well-being of our President.