Atheists, Skeptics and Freethinkers Protest Calvary Chapel Creation Conference TODAY!

Post moved up from Tuesday to remind that the protest is this evening.

two-galaxies-spiraling-close_NASA.jpg
Photo montage courtesy of NASA
Galaxies colliding would have been on, what, Wednesday?
ORIGINAL POST, JULY 22, 7:07 A.M.: Those converging on Santa Ana for the annual creation conference kicking off today can expect two straight days of uninterrupted bliss at Calvary Chapel. "Uh, but isn't this a four-day conference?" ask the faithful in the back pews. Indeed it is. But on the third day, God ... I mean ... Orange County skeptics will be out to protest "the dumbing-down of science through the promotion of the creationists' belief of a divine six-day creation."

Bruce Gleason Wants Your God to Noexist: Forget Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the rest. It's all about us, says Orange County's most famous atheist

Stirring things up, according to "Orange County's most famous atheist" Bruce Gleason, will be members of his group Backyard Skeptics, Riverside Atheists and Free Thinkers (RAFT) and the Freethought Alliance, which is billed as "the largest secular organization in Orange County which promotes science, reason and church-state separation."

Known as Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, though it is located just over the border in Santa Ana, the nondenominational, born-again Christian church holds its annual creation conference today through Friday. Participants will discuss their belief that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, the universe is only 10,000 years old and both were created by God exclusively for humans.

And that is why Gleason and Co. plan to be outside Calvary Chapel at 3800 S. Fairview St., Santa Ana, from 5-7 p.m. Thursday, arguing, "The teachings of creationism harm the U.S. educational system by promoting and teaching anti-science and religious dogma. They consistently try to change laws which will allow them to teach anti-science creationism in public schools."

This, the skeptics maintain, has led to U.S. students being ranked low in science and math compared to all other industrialized nations.

"Creationists discard every piece of scientific data that does not mesh with their pre-conceived dogmas," say protest organizers. "Creationists allow themselves wild speculation, baseless assertions, lies, deceit, and a belief in magic to defend their dogmas."

Email: mcoker@ocweekly.com. Twitter: @MatthewTCoker. Follow OC Weekly on Twitter @ocweekly or on Facebook!


My Voice Nation Help
140 comments
mannybanny
mannybanny

jesus is Santa Claus for adults.


@surfguyglen:

there is more empirical evidence to support the theory of evolution than there is to support the theory of flight. 

Have you ever flown?

The cool thing about evolution is that as more evidence is uncovered (that wasn't around in Darwin's time), it continues to point to evolution.

Got a better theory than evolution? 

Great! Provide the empirical evidence so it can be independently verified.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

.

Religion = Superstitious Nonsense for Ignorant Simpletons


Ipso facto.

jerrysteering
jerrysteering

There's no reason to protest. Freedom of Religion is the freedom to be irrational in any way we choose, no matter how ridiculous your beliefs are. There is no difference between believing in God or Jesus (as a deity), and believing that the earth is 6,000 years old, that humans were spontaneously generated from dust, and that women came from a man's rib. It's all childish nonsense; all of it. Evolution was a theory in the 1840's. In the 21st Century it's a scientifically PROVEN fact. These people have every right to believe in the Easter Bunny, in Santa Claus, Jesus and God. It's all mythology; all of it. Every culture has their myths. We're not exempt.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@mannybanny I believe in the theory of evolution.  Just not to the extent that man is a product of it.  I doubt you believe in the supernatural so it is pretty much impossible for you to believe in anything other than evolution as the answer to "where did we come from".  Creationism and Darwinism are both theories. Blah, blah, blah about peer review and empirical evidence.  Plugging in postulation and speculation to provide answers to what may or may not have happened millions of years ago is not absolute proof that it happened that way.  No one can ever know for sure.  Yet most of the angry Darwinists I have butted heads with don't seem to know this:


"With any scientific process, there is no such ideal as total proof or total rejection, and researchers must, by necessity, work upon probabilities. That means that, whatever level of proof was reached, there is still the possibility that the results may be wrong." (Martyn Shuttleworth)


To me, Darwinism does not sufficiently provide proof.  To you it does.  Great! 


surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@jerrysteering It's only PROVEN fact because you and those like you believe it.  In reality it was, is, and always will be SPECULATION.  But you will never accept that because you and those like you are intolerant of what others believe when it is different than what you believe.

MatthewTCoker
MatthewTCoker topcommenter

@jerrysteering Should a proven fact be shielded from schoolchildren because it conflicts with the religious beliefs of some? I can't speak for the protesters, but I believe it's the movement in that direction at public schools and in our laws that is sending them to Calvary today.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen "I believe in the theory of evolution.  Just not to the extent that man is a product of it."


LOL! ... so you don't believe in Evolution, nor even comprehend what it is.


Stay ignorant, it's what you do best.

BillxT
BillxT topcommenter

Really? Since you're so well versed in the argument, you should be able to explain what radio-carbon dating has to do with dating dinosaurs, and why creation science has debunked it.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@BillxT Radio-carbon dating (an inexact method itself) just allows a means to date things.  Many creationists (like myself) are open to a very old earth.  It in no way proves that a creator does not exist.  And regardless, a purely non-supernatural answer does not exist nor ever will as to how all of this "something" came from "nothing".  I believe it is impossible to absolutely prove today what may or may have not occurred millions of years ago.  If you want to believe that, go ahead.  My problem is with those whose arrogance and intolerance refuse to believe that any answer could be the right one but their own.  Calling people ignorant, unenlightened, and brainwashed is just that....arrogant, close minded, and intolerant.

fishingblues
fishingblues topcommenter

@surfguyglen 


"manners and decency school"?  


What a twit.  It was a simple question.  Yes or no would have sufficed.  Your strange answer will have people wondering, especially considering your other highly suspect posts, surfer boy.


BillxT
BillxT topcommenter

By the way, where did I call anyone "ignorant" or "unenlightened" or brainwashed?.

BillxT
BillxT topcommenter

Wrong.

The correct answer is, although radio-carbon dating is well validated, it is useless for dating remains of dinosaurs (can you guess why? Hint: it has nothing to do with the well-documented error-margin.). Creation science has not debunked it because they confuse it as a method used by paleontologists.

What has a creator to do with accurately dating fossil remains? Attempting to confuse the issue by changing the subject is a well-known bankrupt tactic.

You can refuse to believe the evidence, that's one thing, but until you give me evidence, I have no reason to believe you. Do I?

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@BillxT My discussion started when I pointed a finger at the writer who, in the name of "news" wrote this piece and then proceeded to issue comments on his own article clearly one-sided to the point of insulting.  So if you want to join MY discussion, fine.  But unless you are the Chief of the discussion police, you have no place telling me what or what not I can comment on.


But for the record, I agree that dating fossil remains is not in and of itself, any proof positive or negative that the natural world was created by a supernatural creator.  See, we can agree.


As for your last statement, I do appreciate your point and position.  It is also refreshing to see a non-creationist with the ability to state his own position and belief without condescension or insult to the opposing view.  Thank you!  I was not referring to you particularly but in general to many of the comments I received here.  Pretty much the norm for me whenever I comment publicly on this subject.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@20ftjesus @surfguyglen You miss the point completely.  It is irrelevant to me how old the earth is because I believe a supernatural force could have made it whenever. THAT it was created by a creator is the critical thing to me, not WHEN it was created.

BillxT
BillxT topcommenter

"... you have no place telling me what or what not I can comment on". All I did was give you an opportunity to show your qualifications by giving some knowledgeable answers.

"(Your) discussion"? You post on an open forum not expecting people to question when they have differences?

BillxT
BillxT topcommenter

This is in discussion of a creationist event proponents of which explicitly posit a young-earth. Your comments are non-germain in whole or in part.

20ftjesus
20ftjesus topcommenter

@surfguyglen 

So you don't believe in the Flintstones, excellent!  What's your position on talking animals? (Numbers 22:28) 

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@20ftjesus @surfguyglen What's your position on the supernatural world.  If you flatly deny any sort of existence of one, then the only thing you will ever believe in is what you see and observe in the natural world.  That pretty much makes it impossible for you to open your mind up to the possibilities of what is or is not possible from a supernatural point of view.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen @20ftjesus Nice to see you actually know how to debate with questions rather than just hurl insults.  I don't I know where the Creator came from. I accept that the human mind is incapable of having all of the answers to every question regarding the existence of existence.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen ... your point that rational intelligent people LAUGH at and righteously ridicule your ignorant superstitious nonsense doesn't prove anything other than your simplistic beliefs are laughable superstitious nonsense.


hth.

20ftjesus
20ftjesus topcommenter

@surfguyglen  Actually, I believe Sasquatch is real.  There's tons of eyewitness testimony and written evidence for it -- way more than Jesus.  

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen  I don't I know where the Creator came from."


Why not propose a God's God -- an über God -- since you believe that all things need a creator / designer, surely anything as "complex" as a Universe Creating "God" couldn't have merely popped into existence from nothing.


What evidence do you have that there was ONLY ONE "creator"? ... surely anything as fantastically large and old as The Universe itself would have required MORE THAN ONE entity to create all of it.


surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen My point is that your arrogance and intolerance is proven by the fact you consider yourself rational and intelligent and those that disagree with you as ignorant and simplistic. 

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@20ftjesus @surfguyglen Could be, who really knows.  How about Cyrus the Great?  Did he really exist?  Way more written testimony for Jesus than him.  Do you only believe in what you see for yourself?

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen I don't have evidence that there was only one.  But I believe it is more likely that a power beyond that of the visible natural world created and designed the masterpiece that is the natural world as we know and observe it.  I don't believe order was created from randomness.  And somehow it all had to come from somewhere.  Atheistic darwinism does not have an answer for that.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen "My point is that your arrogance and intolerance is proven by the fact..."


And your idiotic superstitious creationist bullshit is still idiotic superstitious creationist bullshit, no matter how arrogant and intolerant the person calling out your idiotic superstitious creationist bullshit may be.


hth.


20ftjesus
20ftjesus topcommenter

@surfguyglen I need a few extra hours today--let's all pray for Jesus to do another Joshua 10:13.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen ... you don't have any evidence that there was only one, either.


So what created this "power" that you claim created the universe, if as you also claim order cannot be created out of chaos?


If everything "had to come from somewhere" then where did your mythical creator come from?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen ... willful ignorance and superstitious idiocy DESERVES hostility, lest it fester and spread.


The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
 True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge.
 -- H L Mencken

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen (BTW, I purposefully do not use the word evolution because I do believe that plants and animals have the ability to minimally adapt to their environment through the "survival of the fittest".)  So essentially I do believe in the concept of VERY LIMITED evolution.  I do not believe that humans "evolved" from primordial goop.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen Are you a jihadist too?  How about Hiler?  Do you have some nice philosophies from him?  While you are at it, why not quote the Khmer Rouge too.

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@20ftjesus @surfguyglen Was it so hard to just pose the question?  I imagine the first requirement is being open to the idea in the first place.  For me, the natural world is just too magnificent and intricately functioning to believe it "just happened".  It seems to me that some "mechanism of design" was involved in it all.  Since as far as I know, no naturalist/darwinist has ever discovered a mechanism of design, I believe it must be beyond the natural.  As for you?  That is your decision to make.    

surfguyglen
surfguyglen

@DonkeyHotay @surfguyglen So if chemistry is imbued with all of this power to create/design life, who/what created chemistry and gave it all of this power?  Who/what is keeping all of this amazing power controlled and at bay?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

@surfguyglen " I do not believe that humans "evolved" from primordial goop."


What do you believe evolved from "primordial goop" ?

Now Trending

Anaheim Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

Loading...