Kelly's Army Begged Fullerton City Council for Justice Last Night

Fullerton_citycouncil-19.jpg
Josue Rivas
Chief Dan Hughes listening to the public's comments
Last night, the Fullerton City Council set aside part of their agenda so an overflowing public of more than 300 attendees could speak about their concerns surrounding Kelly Thomas and last Monday's shocking verdict. While everyone who spoke was angry across the board, their concerns ranged from pleading with Police Chief Dan Hughes to bar Manuel Ramos, Jay Cicinelli, and Joseph Wolfe from getting their jobs back to citizen police oversight and how the Fullerton Police Department dealt with Saturday's protest.

The meeting began, as all of them do, with everyone reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, except "justice for all" was yelled out by the crowd. Things then got underway quickly as Chief Hughes promised the crowd he would not rehire Ramos, Cicinelli or Wolfe. "It's important to acknowledge that the criminal case has no affect on my decisions about their employment," he assured everyone. "I am confident in my decision."

If the three officers decide to appeal Hughes' decision they must meet in front of an outside arbitrator, but it would ultimately be the the city council's decision to give them their jobs back. Hughes did confirm, however, that a federal criminal investigation of the officers who beat Thomas in 2011 is currently underway.

Ron Thomas, Kelly's father and biggest advocate was the first commenter to take the podium. He thanked Hughes for "sticking with his stance on [the officers'] termination," and then addressed this past Saturday's protest. "Don't judge myself or Kelly's army by some of the actions this weekend," he said. Throughout the night, many other commenters reiterated this point: the protest at the Fullerton Police Station was completely peaceful until around 3:30 p.m., at which time some "rowdy kids" that Kelly's Army does not want to be associated with, began tagging and blocking the streets.

Although Kelly's Army disagreed with those actions, none of them believed that it warranted the Fullerton Police putting on their riot gear. "There's a difference between property damage and violence. Violence is not spray paint," one woman yelled. The crowd also complained about the riot police targeting protestors who were doing nothing wrong. It seemed that the citizen journalists who were live streaming the protest from their cell phones were a target for harassment. Multiple people described "undercover cars going around and just snatching people up," after the protest dispersed.

At least three people who were arrested attended the meeting, and two of them recounted an experience where police intimidated them in the paddy wagon, and then took them to a holding cell where an officer told the group, laughing, "I got two words for you guys 'Not Guilty!'

One soft-spoken attorney took the podium and presented it this way: "Don't let the few bad apples take over the whole story. Saturday was beautiful, with only a few outliers."

The evening was colored by passionate and mostly informed speeches, with only two people comparing America to Nazi Germany. And while many Fullerton citizens attended, the meeting also pulled people from South County, Pasadena, and as far as Downey. Several shared their touching, personal accounts of police brutality. One came from a particularly mysterious woman who said that a Fullerton officer recently put a gun to her head, and was taken off duty for it but had no other repercussions.


Location Info

Map

Fullerton City Hall

303 Commonwealth Ave., Fullerton, CA

Category: General


Sponsor Content

My Voice Nation Help
55 comments
thehighlandperspecti
thehighlandperspecti

The Police officers were acquitted BECAUSE THE JURY WAS PAID OFF. Time for us to stop living in Wonderland and realize that OUR COUNTRY STARTED OFF TO BE THE GREATEST NATION THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN - AND HAS BECOME A BANANA REPUBLIC DOE TO MONEY AND CORRUPTION.

Lance Dean
Lance Dean

Great quote, "We want to be able to run to the police, not run away from them.

Anonymous
Anonymous

A jury acquitted Cincinelli and Ramos based on testimony and evidence submitted at the trial.  There was testimony that Cincinelli and Ramos did not violate Fullerton PD policy on July 5, 2011.  We all saw the video and were shocked at the acquittal.  But, how can you terminate 2 officers that did not violate policy according to trial evidence and testimony?

DA Rackauckas threw the trial and it is a disgrace that Rackauckas did not give it his all, on behalf of the People.  IMO Cincinelli and Ramos may not get their jobs back with the Fullerton PD but they will get a nice nest egg, with the blessing of OC taxpayers, to disappear into the sunset, while civil attorneys on both sides laugh all the way to the bank.

Linda Kelly
Linda Kelly

I am from Philadelphia and very aware of police violence, reading this post sparked my interest in this case. I went on line and read this story about Kelly's death. I can understand the outrage from the community on the verdict of not guilty for these police officers. If they are not guilt for his death then who is?

sweetliberty17761776
sweetliberty17761776 topcommenter

Good cops DO NOT WANT BAD COPS ON THE FORCE


DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT GUYS

mehungsolow
mehungsolow

I CANNOT BELIEVE that the Fullerton Police Douchepartment would even CONSIDER re-hiring these bags of shit.

Then again, that is EXACTLY what a corrupt shithole of a city would do, isn't it?

pmbeers
pmbeers

It would be lovely if OCWeekly would report that independent media news journalists who were doing live stream broadcasts of the protest on Saturday were targeted by Fullerton DD.  Two were arrested and another was almost arrested. 

kgb0
kgb0

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962 35th president 

kcordsen
kcordsen

I find it sad that you chose to show a picture of the troublemaker.  She is from LA, she shouldn't even be there because she has no say voter wise and is probably from that anarchist group that caused all the trouble at the protest.  

Michael Moon
Michael Moon

Why do police chiefs need the same number of stars on their collars as the commander of the entire U.S. army?

Whophantom
Whophantom

People need to stop putting cops on a pedestal. Cops are human unfortunately some are bullies with badges. They do not represent the real profession. We all choose our professions. If your a bully cop go F yourself. Your day will come and I hope it's as painful as innocent defenseless people you murder. Try someone your own size you MFAH's

Dan Heredia
Dan Heredia

People need to stop putting cops on a pedestal. They chose their profession like millions of us do. They are human and will be bullies if not held accountable. If your a cop and a bully go F yourself. Stop defending them because they "fear for their lives". Now, we all do because of brainless bully cops!

ExecuteTamayoNow
ExecuteTamayoNow

"justice" equals "the street's uninformed bloodlust for vengeance"

Corky Fullerton Foundry
Corky Fullerton Foundry

Fantastic reporting. Couldn't make it out last night, so this is the next best thing.

Jake Rankin
Jake Rankin

you should call them the "fullerton death squad" from now on.

Heather Madison
Heather Madison

Glad that they are doing this. This is a tragedy for this community and also does not bode well for any community for that matter...

Mario Martinez
Mario Martinez

I hope they riped him open from his heart so he could feel the distress of the city, THe Cops Fuck ArounD any MOre And they have To remember THey HAve THE Guns But We HAve THe Numbers.

Marc Knack
Marc Knack

Two things I took away from KTLA's video from last night's proceedings: Someone needs to tell Doug Chaffee that he shouldn't look so disgusted with the community while sitting at the meeting. I mean, really? Go find another job if you don't appreciate hearing from your community members. The second thing, I believe, is very important, and needs to be repeated to everyone who will listen. Did a Fullerton cop really tell protesters on Sunday "I have two words for you: Not Guilty! Ha Ha Ha Ha"? If that doesn't disturb and disgust people, I don't know what to tell you.

PriceclubPatty
PriceclubPatty

Could this be the same Dan Hughes who stated not so many months ago, "I've watched that video more than 400 times and see no wrongdoing". Dan Hughes now stands by his decision of termination for the three officers. This is the same Dan Hughes who was the Commander of the Patrol Division and in charge of the officers the night of the Kelly Thomas beating. As a result of the beating, Dan Hughes was promoted to the rank of Chief of Police.

I find it ironic that those most responsible for the condition of Kelly Thomas (before and after his death) are those who have and will benefit monetarily from his death.

sheilamotko
sheilamotko

They should NOT  be rehired Fullerton...the people should have a say...after all..just cause 12 dumb bunnies came back with a not Guilty doesn't mean they weren't guilty of killing kelly Thomas..If they rehire these thugs..that would be a slap in the face to this man's family. These murders should NOT be hired on any police force. If they get that kind of power back...mark my words..What happened to Mr. Thomas will happen to someone else by them. I don't hate police officers' I was taught to respect them but now a days...they are letting men and women who shouldn't be police officers be police officers. 

serbialaw1
serbialaw1

@Anonymous  But at least it will be a little safer to set foot in Fullerton without these two goons running around with guns, badges, Tasers and nightsticks.

spencerj05
spencerj05

@Anonymous  "But, how can you terminate 2 officers that did not violate policy according to trial evidence and testimony?"


PRETTY sure the Chief decides if they violated policy, not a criminal jury.


Are you new to this? What you just described isn't how the system even works.

LPHastings
LPHastings

@mehungsolow They're not considering it. It's just that if Ramos, Cicinelli, or Wolfe decide to appeal their termination then it will be up to the city council to say Yea or Nay.

mehungsolow
mehungsolow

@pmbeers It would be lovely if an avenging angel came down from the sky and SMASHED IN THE BRAINS of every rogue cop in this nation.

And let me tell you, that would be ONE BUSY angel!!

LPHastings
LPHastings

@kcordsen I considered that. Believe me, I know that the mainstream media always picks out the troublemakers. But Alissa Kokkins wasn't really making trouble. And if you read the post I think you'll see that I'm not trying to make it look like she was. She was definitely bold. But it was her turn to speak, and she wanted to fire up the crowd.

mehungsolow
mehungsolow

...it makes him feel like a star himself

mehungsolow
mehungsolow

@Whophantom"People need to stop putting cops on a pedestal"

..and start putting them in MORTUARIES?

gtnoriega554
gtnoriega554

@Whophantom Cops are like the rest of us.  Some are cowards and bullies hiding behind the badge and most are decent and normal.  We need to identify the cowards and bullies and get rid of them.  If not, they will continue to hurt the public. 

LPHastings
LPHastings

It's certainly disgusting. But I'm surprised by your comment about Hughes. Out of every one listening on the council, he was one of the most engaged. He actually seemed to be listening. Of course, we'll see if he actually was further down the line.

ltpar
ltpar topcommenter

@PriceclubPatty Wondering what the sentiment is of the rank and file Officers of the Fulleton Police Department towards Ramos and Cicinelli since they were found innocent?  Will they back the Chief, or view him as throwing two of their own under the bus for political expediency?  Also will be watching with interest as the case winds it's way through the Arbitrator and into the Courts.  Based on employment case law, if Fullerton does not have documented violations of department policy, chances are very good the Court will reinstate the Officers.  To save an embarrassing situation and turmoil within the department, Fullerton would be smart to negotiate a settlement with the Officers.  The City would get rid of the crisis once and for all and save a ton of legal expenses by giving the Officers their back pay, cancel the termination and either allow both to retire or resign.  That said, government has never been known to do the smart thing in similar circumstances.  

kcordsen
kcordsen

@LPHastings @kcordsen Yes and she sure did fire up the crowd which was totally off point because we were there to speak respectfully to the city council which is the only way to get our points across.  Point being, as Ron Thomas said, sorry for the way the protest got nasty, those people were not a part of Kelly's Army.  His other point being to back up Police Chief Hughes decision to not rehire ramos, cicinelli and wolfe.  Then this Alissa person come up to speak, nobody even knows her, and disrupts the room.  So now the media makes it look like Kelly's Army are a bunch of troublemakers.  It just urks all of us that only bad attention is given.  There is so much good we are trying to do.  Thanks for your response.  Kathi 

serbialaw1
serbialaw1

@gtnoriega554 @Whophantom  The problem is, it is too hard to get rid of cops in general, even the bad ones.  They have layers of civil service protection, not to mention powerful unoins and lobbies.

serbialaw1
serbialaw1

@ltpar  So they should buy off cops who beat a man to death?  What kind of a message does that send?  Beat a homeless transient to death, get a fat buyout.  Wonderful.

roman_archer
roman_archer

I'm not sure which of your two comments is the stupidest: Is it that Ramos and Cicinelli were "found innocent", or that Ramos and Cicinelli should receive their "back pay". Do you seriously think the community would stand for paying off two murderers? People are already inflamed by the verdict, now let's pay the killers tens of thousands of dollars in back pay? That will go over real well in the community. It's your "found innocent" comment that really gets me though. That truly may be the dumbest comment I've yet to encounter on these blogs. Of course all one needs to do is look at the source. A former police union goon. The kind of goon who would throw an entire community under the bus just to save one corrupt cop. I think the super glue that holds that bizzare looking toupee on your head must be seeping into your tiny little brain. Now spend a little time brainstorming a good excuse for the "found innocent" comment. You're going to need it.

kcordsen
kcordsen

@ltpar They were found not guilty, you said they were found innocent, do you know the difference?  BIG difference.

RyanCantor
RyanCantor

@ltpar I agree, the city should settle.  Three dollars ought to do it.

LPHastings
LPHastings

@kcordsen @LPHastings I understand your frustration. Kelly's Army is certainly doing good work, day in and day out, year after year. I'm glad that the verdict has angered people enough that they would come to a city council meeting when they don't live in Orange County. And even though her tactic was not what Kelly's Army wants, I don't think it overshadowed the other calm speakers. 

gtnoriega554
gtnoriega554

Maybe the best we can do is catch them on video whenever we can.

roman_archer
roman_archer

@itpar Now I get it! That law school you flunked out of appears to have been the Merriam-Webster school of law.

ltpar
ltpar topcommenter

@roman_archer  What you brainless wonders fail to recognize is the "law is the law" and it applies to everyone, whether you like them or not.  Keep watching and see how this case is eventually resolved before shooting off your big mouth.  By the way, I am not advocating anything but merely relating my experience in labor law cases as a "Union Goon."  

On the found "innocent" definition, I didn't write the dictionary (Merriam-Webster) but just read it.  

in·no·cent adjective \ˈi-nə-sənt\

: not guilty of a crime or other wrong act

: not deserving to be harmed

: lacking experience with the world and the bad things that happen in life

serbialaw1
serbialaw1

@roman_archer  There is such a thing as "actual innocence", which entitles someone to restitution for a wrongful conviction and imprisonment.  But that does not apply here.

RyanCantor
RyanCantor

@ltpar Apparently only in your own mind, sir.


Innocent = not guilty.

Not guilty is not necessarily innocent.


A square is a rectangle.

A rectangle is not necessarily a square.


This is basic logic that's taught in the 3rd grade.

roman_archer
roman_archer

Oh that's priceless! And what law school did you flunk out of? Has anyone ever heard of a "found innocent" verdict in a court of law? Anyone?

ltpar
ltpar topcommenter

@kcordsen @ltpar  Only in your own mind.

Reference:  Merriam Dictionary

in·no·cent adjective \ˈi-nə-sənt\

: not guilty of a crime or other wrong act

: not deserving to be harmed

: lacking experience with the world and the bad things that happen in life

Now Trending

Anaheim Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

Loading...