Prosecutors of Kelly Thomas' Killers Allowed Access to Ex-Cops' Files (to the Chagrin of City)

See the update on the City of Fullerton's opposition to and planned appeal of the judge's decision to allow prosecutors a look at Ramos and Cicinelli's employment records.

Thumbnail image for mannyramosfpd.jpg
Ex-Officer Ramos
ORIGINAL POST, DEC. 27, 12:52 P.M.: The judge overseeing the Kelly Thomas murder trial ruled today that prosecutors can review employment records of ex-Fullerton police officers Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli. But Orange County Superior Court Judge William Froeberg held off a decision on whether any information from the cops' jackets will be admitted into evidence during the trial.

Prosecutors had filed a motion seeking access to the records to rebut last week's testimony by Fullerton Police Cpl. Stephen Rubio.

See also: the complete Kelly Thomas Killing archives

Ex-Cpl. Cicinelli
Rubio had claimed the officers mostly or fully acted within the city's policy when the transient was violently subdued and killed at the Fullerton Transportation Center on July 5, 2011.

Ramos is charged with the second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter of Thomas, while ex-Cpl. Cincinelli faces the latter count as well as use of excessive force. Former Officer Joe Wolfe, who was also indicted for involuntary manslaughter and using excessive force, is to be tried separately.

City News Service reports the trial of Ramos and Cicinelli is scheduled to pick up again on Jan. 6.

UPDATE, DEC. 27, 2:58 P.M.: Judge Froberg's ruling today only applies to release of the sections of Ramos and Cicinelli's employment records that pertain to the struggle between Kelly Thomas and six Fullerton police officers.

But as Paul Anderson reports for City News Service, even that limited examination drew a strong rebuke--not from the defense but the City of Fullerton.

For reasons not made clear, Attorney Greg Palmer, representing the city, made a motion opposing prosecutors' access to the records, something that confused Judge Froberg.

"What is prejudicial to the city'' in the records? the judge asked. "Frankly, I don't see anything."

It's not like prosecutors are going after the city. What Deputy District Attorney Keith Bogardus told Froeberg he is after is an indication that Ramos and Cicinelli were fired for violating city policy as a result of killing Kelly Thomas.

"I suppose the evidence is there was an investigation and a determination was made there were training and policy violations," Bogardus told Froeberg.

If that is reflected in the records, Bogardus further explained, it would counter Fullerton Police Cpl. Stephen Rubio and Sgt. Kevin Craig, who testified for the defense that Ramos and Cicinellia acted within policy.

"The people should be entitled to rebut that testimony," Bogardus said.

The people of Fullerton don't want that to happen--or at least the attorney for the city doesn't as Palmer said he will file an appeal of Froeberg's ruling. The city has only publicly stated Ramos and Cicinelli were terminated.

Palmer, defense attorneys and the prosecutors are scheduled to return to court Jan. 3 for Froberg's ruling on whether he will allow the information in the employment records to be entered as evidence in the trial. Depending on how that goes, the defense may file its own motion to suppress, which could delay the trial.

For now, the trial is still scheduled to pick up Jan. 6. Froberg's evidence ruling will inform prosecutors on whether to call a witness related to the employment records or a physician, Anderson reports.

Email: mcoker@ocweekly.com. Twitter: @MatthewTCoker. Follow OC Weekly on Twitter @ocweekly or on Facebook!


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31 comments
barneyrubble
barneyrubble

The father should put a posse together and pay each and every one of those murderers a visit. I wonder how the pigs would like it if the father beat their sons to death?

USAneedsGOD
USAneedsGOD

Feed them to the general prison population...end of prison time.

paullucas714
paullucas714 topcommenter

The supervisory officers will be labeled as Brady Cops if this goes south for them. Then the civil suit filed after this criminal trial will be on steroids. The good thing is that the general public will know that police do lie on the stand in court and they do cover up for each others criminal offenses.

DeeActivist
DeeActivist

I hope they allow information about both officers entire lives, personal, private and all, they are allowing of Kelley's dirty laundry to be aired so these officers and their real character should be revealed as well, not only is the City of Fullerton responsible for Kelley's death but these two men are as well, they never should have been police officers in the first place, they both had major issues, I hope the truth comes out. 

Glenn Howard
Glenn Howard

No mercy . Make example of this thug and send the message. We won't tolerate this anymore.

jaosborn1
jaosborn1

The City of Fullerton fears release of the information because it will be used against the City in the wrongful death claim from Ron Thomas

ElChapo1
ElChapo1

A LOT OF CURRENT FULLERTON COPS ARE CORRUPT. GOOGLE THESE NAMES.

FRANK NGUYEN - LIED TO JURY & DESTROYED EVIDENCE & BEAT UP A  YOUNG MAN.

MIGUEL "SONNY BLACK" SILICEO - HAS A FELONY ON WWW.OCCOURTS.ORG

YOU CAN BET THE CITY OF FULLERTON AND FPD DON'T WANT THEIR RECORDS RELEASED B/C ITS NOTHING BUT COMPLAINTS AND MISCONDUCT.

KEEP UP THE FIGHT PEOPLE!  NEVER FORGET! JUSTICE FOR KELLY THOMAS!!!

Jon Lundin
Jon Lundin

As a party animal in Fullerton, I've dealt with Cicenelli and Rubio. They're both dicks.

Jeff Rey
Jeff Rey

yesss! justice on the way

apv4
apv4

City of Fullerton obviously has a thick file on these 2 murderers. Good bet that the City of Fullerton ignored a pattern of violent criminal behavior from these goons going back years.

Kim Miller
Kim Miller

He was 135 pounds and you can read the audio of the event line by line ...he didn't resist ! It was just typical cop control issues that set it off .

Jed Spellum
Jed Spellum

Some excessive force!? They beat the ever-loving shit out of him! Kelly Thomas was not a large man. Whacking him in the arms and legs with a baton would have been sufficient for pain compliance. I took a law enforcement class that explained the use of force. According to the guidelines of the course, Fullerton PD was way in the wrong. I hope your chute doesn't open next time you skydive.

bphood
bphood

The city of fullerton should join the inland empire at this point this is getting down right inland

Xander Lombardo
Xander Lombardo

Ramos ear looks fucked up and the other looks like sloth from the goonies

Ken Webb
Ken Webb

The police keep all those complaints under lock And key---- many times with judges refusing to allow the officers years of unethical behavior come to light,..as the request has to exactly match notes in the file and only the files exactly matching are allowed. The police and the DA and judges are all fully aware and this magical system of hiding what goes on is well known and perpetuated by the DA , Judges and others. Police are bad. Period,.. And the good ones have to help hide what goes on or their life is also put on the line. Once the good ones turn a blind eye -- they are just as guilty

Marlena Serpico Carrillo
Marlena Serpico Carrillo

Matt Lee you know nothing... Kelly was stalked and harnessed by the fat ugly pig shown above for years... Ramos and the rest of those monsters deserve what they get...

Matt Lee
Matt Lee

ok, I believe there was some excessive force but this all would have never happened it he didn't resist. end of story. what should cops do when they are trying to cuff someone and they fight back? let them just go and say have a nice night?

Naomi M. Anderson
Naomi M. Anderson

Great!! His entire character should be analyzed. This surely wasn't the first time this baboon hurt someone or violated their civil rights. He's fugly too!!

mikeyrobinson
mikeyrobinson

But we will.. The ONLY reason this has gone as far as it has is the DA. If the DA had not decided to file charges than that would have been the end of it.


Sorry to say we only care because he does. There have been at least 3 other police beatings of unarmed men here in CA since the Kelly Thomas incident that have lead to their death. (One man was even woken from sleep)


I ask, do you know about them? No, that's because their DA agreed with the police actions and the coroners blame an unhealthy heart that killed them and not the beatings. Sound familiar? 


We have NO oversight of police in this state. Especially since Copley Press and SB1019.


Look at how much trouble the DA is having just getting past records and having them admitted... They have a protection that you and I are not given.


Unfortunately there are too few of the 40 million people in CA that care or will even lift a finger to make a change in policy or perception


Just look at the LAPD ALL of their issues. Guess who thinks he should be re-elected as Chief? And guess who is the front runner...


People don't care... Just sheep

paullucas714
paullucas714 topcommenter

@jaosborn1

@jaosborn1 You are correct. I have had the same situation. a cop as forced into retirement, his facebook page(yes hes dumb enough to have one with no privacy controls) details how he was run out of the PD by fellow officers for his corruption. And the POBRA and the city has protected him and his records.

gigi905
gigi905

You have no room to talk. Your face looks like a dogs autopsy.

Terd
Terd

The one with the goony face got one of his eyes shot out. LMFAO!!!

bphood
bphood

his boyfriend has a strong grip

paullucas714
paullucas714 topcommenter

Yes totally and completely accurate.

DeeActivist
DeeActivist

What is the difference between resisting and responding to intentionally inflicted pain? Remember on the video he says " You see these fists, they are going to F you up"..........Did it really matter if he resisted at that point? The intent was clearly stated. 

falcon_74
falcon_74

matt what you don't do is beat the life out of them these cops were responding to a call from one of there cop hang out  The Slide Bar also there were 6 cops not 2 why the others were not prosecuted is any ones guess! by the way did you know the DA also said you have the right to protect yourself from police if they are abusing you.and some of the low life cops stole peoples cell phones  for recording  if they were not being corrupt why do you suppose they did not want a record of the event how ironic it was the city cameras and the police dispatcher who recorded the murder because that is what it was .these cops knew kelly for over 15 years they are low life garbage i hope they hang! the Sargent Wolf is being tried separately he was the one who actually hit kelly from be hind on the back of his legs what a coward pig!

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