Ayn Rand Institute Bigwigs Piss on Libertarianism, Libertarians Fight Back!

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Funny but true: recently on Facebook, a "friend" tried to insult me by calling me a libertarian and a Randian--a follower of bad novelist Ayn Rand. While I don't mind being labeled with the former since it's somewhat true, I laughed at the latter. We trash Rand and her followers--the creepiest cultists this side of Scientology, although the chicks tend to be hotter--as much as possible here, especially the Irvine-based Ayn Rand Institute, which considers her and her writings their version of Jesus despite Rand's hatred of organized religion other than the sycophants around her.

While there are some similarities between libertarianism and Randians, the Randians (or, as they call themselves, Objectivists) hate the freewheeling libs. And if you don't believe me, then check out what Ayn Rand Institute founder Leonard Peikoff and current president Yaron Brooks had to say on a recent podcast.

Brooks seems to have a problem that modern-day libertarianism is so damn hippy-dippy in its love of no war, no empire, and no drug war. "Even though it [libertarianism] might have initially been adopted innocently by certain people who were advocates of free markets, it was very quickly, in the 1960's and 70's co-opted by the anarchists and by the complete philosophic subjectivists," Brooks told Peikoff on the podcast. "And they dominated the movements throughout that period of time. Even though I believe that today the libertarian movement is fragmented, it's disintegrating."

"Disintegrating"? Libertarianism is more popular and accepted now than at any point in this nation's history, with more young people than I care to know labeling themselves as such to justify their love of free markets, drugs, and cursing. Objectivism, on the other hand, is crashing and burning--and if you don't believe me, check out the box-office numbers for the execrable film adaptation of the execrable novel, Atlas Shrugged.

(Quick aside: I remember trying to read this book back at Anaheim High, because Randians love to distribute Rand's works en masse to kiddies under the façade of a scholarship. Even then, her writing bored me to death--and I'm someone who could read Finnegan's Wake in two days and get what the fuck Joyce was trying to communicate).

Libertarians ain't taking the insults of Peikoff and Brooks lightly. LewRockwell.com has already posted its retort, and more should come. This sordid episode just further proves my experience: that Objectivists are the most conceited people on Earth, and about as rational as having an ice-cube machine in the Arctic.

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53 comments
Karen
Karen

She's like one of those crazy mail order brides from Russia but in her case she was so ugly she had to pay an American to marry her!

spongessuck
spongessuck

On war, from Rand's book 'Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal:'"By the nature of its basic principles and interests, [laissez-faire capitalism] is the only system fundamentally opposed to war."Rand isn't to blame because her modern-day followers aren't actually Randian and misrepresent her views.I find that most people who rail against Rand are those who either didn't read/like her novels or misunderstand her philosophy, and the author seems to fall in both groups.

Joe_McPlumber
Joe_McPlumber

I'll be damned and here i thought i was a non-registered member of a loosely defined group called the "Liberty Movement", dedicated to bringing this country back to the rule of law.

 

You folks are like those happy dancing people on TV, the ones that drink Pepsi because they're so cutting-edge individualist. So superior to those Coke sheeple, the sort who pierce their tongues instead of tattooing their genitals.

 

It's like herding cats, jeebus we're doomed.

kainscalia
kainscalia

"Randian, cultist, scientology." Says a man belonging to a political party that spawns people who think the government is hiding the existence of Aliens and who describe themselves as everything between 'anarco-capitalist' and 'social-democratic-capitalist.' I don't think he's noticed that the Libertarians are seen as the Poor Relation With Her Underwear Outside Of Her Garments in the political spectrum.... making even the Tea Partiers seem sane in comparison.

bgreshko
bgreshko

"Libertarianism is more popular and accepted now than at any point in this nation's history"

 

I would argue that it was more popular in the late 1700's than it is today.

red.marcy.rand
red.marcy.rand

Rand had paid taxes, heavy ones, for forty years here before Medicare became law.

What kind of a moron would say that we can't take advantage of a government program that we are forced to pay into ?

Atlas Shrugged is the greatest literary and philosophical work in human history.

That some imbecile would prefer James Joyce to Rand is unbelievable and such a object

is a product of our government reducation system.

Gustave, I didn't think it was possible for my opinion of you to go even lower but ......................

Ron Paul did not refute her philosophy in his Fed book, his book was an example of it in that area.

How utterly stupid can some 'people' be ????

JenniferJ
JenniferJ

That hag may have rejected government all her life but when her lungs had tumors filling them up from her nauseating chain smoking, she sure grabbed all the welfare that she could get.

BigSanti
BigSanti

Ayn Rand was a Zionist warmonger, a hypocrite and an evil soulless whore who equated voluntary charity with "socialism" and believed the sole purpose for human interaction was to make money. Ron Paul tore her "philosophy" apart in End the Fed.

SurlyCurmudgen
SurlyCurmudgen

The hardcore progressives hate Rand due to her extolling of free markets and pure capitalism.(borrowing a term coined by Marx)   Joyce, wasn't he a progressive author who extolled communism and socialism to his readers without using those nasty words communism and socialism? Progressive authors always lauded other progressive authors and attacked those who did not agree with them. 

bsolestis
bsolestis

"Even then, her writing bored me to death--and I'm someone who could read Finnegan's Wake in two days and get what the fuck Joyce was trying to communicate)." <-- That explains a lot right there.1) Young people may just be calling themselves Libertarians until they discover there's a better option. And anyway, do you really see a gaggle of intoxicated, cursing teenagers as the LP's desired constituency?2) The Atlas movies are crashing because they're bad movies, not because people are rejecting the philosophy that the movies attempt and fail to to present.

3) If Objectivism were the failure you wish it were, you'd ignore its rejections of Libertarianism.

 

Look, the basic problem is that a love of liberty is not a philosophy. Libertarians don't even have a coherent definition of liberty to go by. Libertarians are Christians, atheists, Marxists, anarchists, capitalists, pacifists, hawks, egoists and altruists. As long as they have a common enemy to yell against (Federal Reserve, anyone?) they seem to be unified; when they try to build something on their own, the internal contradictions lead to nothing but paralysis and hot air.

NGCoot
NGCoot

I respect and in general agree with Ayn Rands views on the free market and liberty and how she expresses those views through her excessively long novels.

 

I disagree with her views on religion and her athiesm.  I believe that altruism and generosity are good for society and that those things are not possible through government taking from one to give to another.  I do not consider myself an objectiveist.

 

I think that is how most conservatives feel about Ayn Rand.

breakfastinbeard
breakfastinbeard

Such a rugged individualist. Ayn Rand made sure her cancer treatment was on public expense. She died from abusing her own lungs (hardly the hallmark of a great thinker) and as a consequence of her methamphetamine habit, ALL WHILE ON WELFARE.

 

Nobody would give a crap about this if she hadn't lived her life extolling the queenly "virtue" of being a selfish, hateful cunt.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @red.marcy.rand

 Absolutely. Those imbeciles who 'trash' Rand, her philosophy and her works are only revealing the kind of garbage cans they have come from, and the sort of refuse they have imbibed in their education. ;Atlas Shrugged is indeed the greatest literary and philosophical work in human history. But here's the catch: it requires a certain degree of intelligence and intellectual independence to recognise this. Atlas is not for the morons, cretins and imbeciles of this world; they can have their Joyce and other such rubbish.

genrebender23
genrebender23

@red.marcy.rand

Atlas Shrugged is the greatest literary and philosophical work in human history.BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH OMG, no stop you're killing me. Good thing I wasn't drinking milk when I read that, or I'd need a new keyboard at the very least.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @JenniferJ

 You deserve nothing less than the nobel prize for such utter drivel!

bsolestis
bsolestis

 @BigSanti It's clear you've never bothered to understand what Rand actually wrote and believed. She wasn't a Zionist, she was an atheist. She NEVER equated voluntary charity with socialism; she identified COERCED -- tax-fueled, government-run -- charity as socialism, and she was right. And she believed each individual's happiness, not money, should be that individual's life's purpose. What possible purpose could you have in spreading such misinformation?I haven't read End the Fed but I feel comfortable in saying Ron Paul will never be taught in respected philosophy departments as Rand and Objectivism are, now.

GustavoArellano
GustavoArellano moderator editortopcommenter

 @SurlyCurmudgen All I got from Joyce was a love of great writing and booze; all I got from Rand was bewilderment at how anyone could follow her chain-smoking chicken-hawking.

red.marcy.rand
red.marcy.rand

 @NGCoot That's why most conservatives are screwed up and never make real changes. If you don't reject the altruist morality you can't begin to fight collectivism-statism. Altruism has nothing to do with benevolence or generosity.

Objectivists believe in reason, not supernatural mysticism as reflected in the primitive worship of gods.

 

 

robert.middleton1
robert.middleton1

The Altruism she spoke of was of that which is imposed on another person by government, religion, society, whatever. She stated that if she is to give charity, it will be because she desires to do so... not at the whims and demands of another.... which in fact is not charity, but obligation.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @breakfastinbeard

 You must be the original c..t. Live in your own c..thood. You belong there. Ok. Giving you 1% intelligence: a) Smoking was a widely prevelant habit in her days and the hazards of smoking, known now, were not known then - Rand did not claim omniscience like the liberal-fascists; b) was she the only thinker in history who smoked and what has the habit of smoking (in her days especially) got to do with the quality of thinking? c) EVEN IF she some social security benefits were provided to her, it was only a small restitution of all the money taken away by the government d) she had no choice in the matter of paying to the government.

red.marcy.rand
red.marcy.rand

 @breakfastinbeard She was entitled to Medicare after paying heavy taxes in this country for 40 years before Medicare became law. You are entitled to take advantage of any government you are forced to pay for.

How dense can you be not to get that  ?!

You have no objection to us paying for homosexuals who contract AIDS through anal intercourse.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @breakfastinbeard

 You are such a civilized person! A brainless, spiritless 'attack' of one of the greatest writers and thinkers in all of human hostory. Shame on you!

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @GustavoArellano  @red.marcy.rand

 Are you literate? Does'nt look like it. And you presume to talk about Randians whoever that might be! There are no Randians (unlike Christians or Marxists). Rand's philosophy is a rational individualist philosophy; anyone who subscribes to it (in full or in part) does so on the basis of his /her own thinking, not based on 'faith' or 'what others believe' or 'what is fashionable at the moment'.

red.marcy.rand
red.marcy.rand

Gusie, can you translate your wordsalad into english ? This is an Anglo civilization, dude.

BigSanti
BigSanti

 @bsolestis  @BigSanti Zionism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive... in fact most "atheists" (like most "christians") propped up by the establishment "happen to be" Zionist neo-cons: Chistopher Hitchens, Pat Condell, etc. Ayn Rand was a hardcore Zionist, she called Israel the "vanguard of civilization" (despite being a "socialist" country). Also, she called christianity "the best kindergarden of communism possible" because of its emphasis on self-sacrifice and altruism towards, clearly implying that altruistic morality behind voluntary charity leads to "communism." Finally, Ron Paul is a politician, not a philosopher, so of course he won't be taught in "respected philosophy departments"... not that Objectivism should be either, it being a ripoff of FUNCTIONALISM and all...

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @GustavoArellano  @SurlyCurmudgen

 All I felt after reading Joyce was the uncontrollable urge to vomit at such garbage. What I felt after reading Rand was a love of rational philosophy, brilliant writing  and the power of language.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @red.marcy.rand  @NGCoot

 We have two groups of morons in the world who want bully everyone else : one, the liberal-fascist-statists and two, the conservative-religionists. The religionists want human life to be subordinated to some ghost they call god, and to his reps on earth; the liberal-fascists want human life to be subordinated to THEIR god, called the government and ITS reps on earth. Both are intent on brainwashing and killing the INDIVIDUAL through fraud and coercion. Ayn Rand was the genius who saw through this game and exposed the frauds and charlatans- the liberal-fascists and religionists- for what they are. Not having the intellectual ability to read, let alone understand Rand they have resorted to the following fraud: first, completely distort what she wrote; second, attack with smears and innuendos  this distorted version; then, pretend that they are right and Rand was wrong. Let any of them have the moral spine to say that he/she is against reality, reason, the individual, voluntary dealings among people, celebration of achievement, and individual rights- which awere the values Rand stongly advocated throughout her life, both through the magnificient Atlas Shrugged as well as  other writings.

SurlyCurmudgen
SurlyCurmudgen

@robert.middleton1As a mental exercise I spent some time attempting to deduce a purely altruistic action on the part of an individual. I utterly failed. The term altruism is the philosophical equivalent of the math symbol for infinity,  there is not a concise exact definition. After an inordinate length of time over a period of  three years, I ceased wasting my time.

 

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @robert.middleton1

 Exactly. Heaven knows why most people, even honest ones, so completely misintepret Rand's ethical philsosophy. Rand srtongly advocated POSITIVE values: rationality, objectivity, rational self-interest, self-actualisation, celebration of achievement, individual rights, voluntary social interactions. She was against self-sacrifice and forced 'giving' either by the state or by religion. Her philosophy is all for benevolence and social co-operation to mutual benefit among people.

NGCoot
NGCoot

What do you mean "keeping it civil"??

 

Calling any woman - dead or alive - a "cunt" is uncivil and is disrespectful and mysoginistic toward all women.  bfib is a fucking asshole

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @GustavoArellano  @red.marcy.rand

Gustavo, you obviously know nothing of history. Ayn Rand was an American citizen. She was born in Russia and later acquired American citzenship. Like ALL the current inhabitants of U.S whether they were originally from England, Ireland, Africa, China, India, Italy or wherever.

And HA! to you for confusing a rational philosophy with some religious fantasy.

GustavoArellano
GustavoArellano moderator editortopcommenter

 @efiilo02  @red.marcy.rand Efiilo: Oh, please. You Randians treat Ayn as the second coming of Christ despite y'all babbling about believing in no gods—HA!

 

Red: This is an Anglo civilization? Last I checked, your beloved Rand was a Russian.

efiilo02
efiilo02

 @bsolestis  @breakfastinbeard

 Exactly. But Rand speaks to those who wish to use their minds. For those who do not, there are plenty of other 'thinkers'/'writers'/'academics'. Rand is not for them.

bsolestis
bsolestis

 @breakfastinbeard It's FACTually incorrect that she extolled the "virtue" of being a selfish, hateful cunt. She was very careful to advocate actual moral virtues, which she identified as rationality, honesty, productivity, etc. and which she wrote about here, if you could trouble yourself to read it: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ari_ayn_rand_the_objectivist_ethics

 

For the rest, mea culpa, I should have said biased and small, rather than wrong. If you insist on calling Medicare welfare, fine, but Rand was only collecting on a service she'd been forced to pay for all her life -- as opposed to welfare, which is a pure entitlement paid for by others. It's debatable whether her smoking caused her lung cancer. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Leonard Peikoff, who knew her better than I or, I daresay, you, has said that had she known the medical data against smoking that she would have stopped immediately. These personal issues are, of course, irrelevant to the validity of her ideas.

breakfastinbeard
breakfastinbeard

 @NGCoot  @bsolestis OH. As long as it's okay to torture uncharged, untried prisoners while President, OKAY. But a 4-letter word is WRONG.

 

Get your fucking PRIORITIES straight, pinhead.

NGCoot
NGCoot

 @breakfastinbeard  @bsolestis I did not take issue with your statements of what you believe are fact.

 

You were wrong to call any woman, dead or alive, a cunt.  You are a foul disgusting individual.

NGCoot
NGCoot

@breakfastinbeard -In you have't noticed we don't live in the UK -we live in the USA.

breakfastinbeard
breakfastinbeard

 @NGCoot Well, YOU'RE culturally insensitive. CUNT is a perfectly acceptable epithet in the UK for both men and (usually less frequently) women who qualify via BEHAVIOUR rather than anatomy.

 

Do you get mad when men are called DICKS? NO?

SEXIST.

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