[UPDATED with OC Public Defender Getting Dekraai Case:] 6 Women and 2 Men, OC Homicides Nos. 45-52: Massacred at Beauty Salon

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UPDATE, OCT. 24, 3:05 P.M.: Orange County Superior Court Judge Erick L. Larsh this afternoon assigned the defense of Scott Evans Dekraai to the Orange County Public Defender's office. The lead attorney (at taxpayers' dime) will now be senior Deputy Public Defender Scott Sanders. Dekraai's original defense attorney, Robert Curtis, told Larsh he specializes in family law, having represented the accused in previous divorce and custody proceedings. Curtis, of Jarvis & Krieger of Long Beach, added that Dekraai cannot afford a private law firm for an expensive death-penalty trial.

See the reaction to this development from the husband of one murder victim after the jump . . .


Telling television news reporters gathered outside the courtroom that he was not surprised "that someone does not want to stand up there and defend this coward," the late Christie Wilson's husband Paul Wilson observed, "What we do need to remember and what is news today is that over the past week we have had to say goodbye to eight very loving people who were mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers. That should be the news, not what happened here."

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UPDATE, OCT. 24, 12:37 P.M.: Seal Beach hair salon massacre suspect Scott Evans Dekraai has not even had his full court arraignment yet and his defense attorneys already want off the case.

The Jarvis & Krieger firm in Long Beach will ask Judge Erick L. Larsh to find another defenders for the accused worst mass killer in Orange County history at an Orange County Superior Court hearing this afternoon.

The reason for the request is expected to be revealed at that hearing.

Deputy District Attorney Scott Simmons tells Fox 11 News he has not been told why Jarvis & Krieger wants off the case, but he speculates it could be because the firm cannot afford to conduct a death-penalty trial. If a defendant is found guilty in such a trial, a second phase to determine if he or she deserves the ultimate penalty then begins, and it is often as long and expensive in man hours as the guilty phase.

At Dekraai's Oct. 14 arraignment hearing, which at the request of defense attorney Robert Curtis was continued to Nov. 29 so he would have more time to prepare, the lawyer asked Judge Erick L. Larsh to order jail officials to give his client a prescribed anti-psychotic medicine and access to a "spinal cord stimulator" he has needed since his 2007 boat accident. Larsh instead ordered a medical evaluation of Dekraai to see what medicine he might need, leaving it up to the Orange County Sheriff's Department jailers to decide what was appropriate.

Some, including District Attorney Tony Rackauckas, believe the anti-psychotic medicine request maybe part of the defense laying the foundation for an insanity plea.

Related:





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Courtesy of the Orange County District Attorney's Office
Scott Evans Dekraai: laughing all the way to Death Row?
UPDATE, OCT. 14, 3:14 P.M.: On Fridays, we like to post the ugliest police mugshot of the week. Seal Beach mass murder suspect Scott Evans Dekraai has made it real easy. Look at that fucker, laughing into the camera, after [yes, allegedly] taking his 8-year-old son's mother away from him, ensuring that boy will forever live with the stigma of what his father has done [yes, allegedly] and heading for a possible place on California's Death Row. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Orange County, we have found our Halloween monster.

Was he drunk or under the influence of illegal or prescription meds while he apparently carried out the deadliest shooting in OC history? Nope, says the district attorney, he was clean. His victims and would-be victims cowered in fear, played dead and tried to hide as the gunman methodically walked through the salon and fired his weapons, even stopping once to reload.

"Pop-pop-pop!"

Dekraai's arraignment this afternoon was continued to 8:30 a.m. Nov. 29 in Santa Ana. He entered no plea. His attorney Robert Curtis said the jail where he is being held without bail has denied him his anti-psychotic medications Trazadome and Topamax. Judge Erick L. Larsh ordered a medical review to determine what medications Dekraai needs.

Relatives of victims and others at the Santa Ana courtroom yelled "coward" and "I hate you" at Dekraai before and after the proceedings. Curtis indicated he will file a motion seeking a change of venue.

The alleged killer's son is said to be safe with family members. A fund has been set up for victims' families. Visit www.salonmeritagefund.org.

The Orange County District Attorney's office (OCDA) has cleaned up its earlier statement published in full in the previous update to reflect the correct spelling of Dekraai's middle name, the correct date for the crime (it was transposed in a statement from acting Seal Beach Police Chief Tim Olson), and the fact that murder victim Michele Fast was a salon client, not an employee. Hopefully, I've caught all such errors throughout this getting-longer post; if you catch any I missed tell me in the comments or email me at mcoker@ocweekly.com.

UPDATE, OCT. 14, 11:52 A.M.: Standing alongside Seal Beach's acting Police Chief Tim Olson, Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas began this morning's emotional press conference in his Santa Ana office by saying, "Oct. 12, 2011, is a day that should never have been visited on the peaceful community of Seal Beach, California. The people of our community were made victims of a bloody massacre by a methodical and merciless killer." He would go on to disclose he will seek the death penalty for Scott Evans Dekraai.

Rackauckas called the violence "senseless" and accused Dekraai of forever changing the lives of the victims' families. "They will forever be left with a missing place in their hearts," he said, "and a missing chair at their Thanksgiving tables."

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Scott Evans Dekraai
The DA then announced he was filing eight felony counts of special circumstances murder and one count of attempted murder against Dekraai, who is being held without bail at Orange County Jail and is expected to be arraigned this afternoon.

Saying his office is still investigating, Rackauckas said he believes that the evidence will ultimately show Dekraai just after 1:20 p.m. Wednesday walked into Salon Meritage "prepared to commit murder." He was packing three firearms--which Olson later identified as a Springfield 9mm, a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and and H&K .45-caliber handgun--when he walked through the salon "shooting anyone close enough to hit," Rackauckas said.

"He stopped to reload during his spree," the DA added.

He accused Dekraai of not being satisfied with killing his intended target, his ex-wife Michelle Fournier, spending two minutes "executing" people in the salon by shooting them in the heads and chests. Rackauckas added the killer was not done, shooting Dave Caouette sitting in his SUV in the parking lot for reasons unknown.

Rackauckas said the motive was "revenge."

"Clearly, this two-minute murder spree could not have been about loving his son," Rackuckas said. "Eight irreplaceable lives were callously snuffed out like collateral damage. We will not forget any one of these people. Their lives mattered. We will seek justice to the best of our ability."

He then ran down each victim's name and age. The DA had trouble keeping his composure as he talked about Dekraai and Fournier's 8-year-old son (originally reported as age 7). At the time of the senseless shooting, "the son he professed to love was sitting in the principal's office . . . waiting for his mom or dad to pick him up," Rackauckas said, choking up. "That little boy is a victim. . . . Now his mother has been murdered, and he has to grow up knowing his dad is a mass murderer. So what kind of sick and twisted fatherly love might that be."

The DA then explained his usual method of convening a committee in special-circumstances murder cases so that he and veteran prosecutors can decide appropriate punishment, up to and including the death penalty.

"Some cases are so depraved, so callous and so malignant that that there's only one punishment that might fit the crime," Rackauckas said in explainging why there is no need to convene a panel in this case. "I will of course seek the death penalty."

Olson, who frequently referred to Dekraai as a "coward," disclosed his department had contact with the suspect over the past two months, including an alleged violation of his visitation agreement.

Taking questions from the reporters, Rackauckas also cleared up reports about whether Fournier had recently taken out a restraining order against Dekraai, saying his office has seen no such information. There was an attempt to take out such an order in 2007, the DA said, but the process was not completed.

The OCDA statement on the charges follows:

October 14, 2011

Case # 11CF2781

DISTRICT ATTORNEY TO SEEK DEATH PENALTY AGAINST SEAL BEACH SALON SHOOTER FOR LARGEST MASS MURDER IN ORANGE COUNTY HISTORY

SANTA ANA - The Orange County District Attorney announced today that he will seek the death penalty against a man charged with committing the largest mass-murder in Orange County history. The Seal Beach Police Department (SBPD) investigated this case.

Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, Huntington Beach, is charged with eight felony counts of special circumstances murder for committing multiple murders and one felony count of attempted murder. He is being held without bail and is scheduled to be arraigned today, Friday, Oct. 14, 2011, at 1:30 p.m. in Department C-55, Central Justice Center, Santa Ana.

"There are some crimes that are so depraved, so callous, so malignant, that there is only one punishment that will fit the crime. When a person, in a case such as this, goes on a rampage and kills innocent people in an indiscriminate bloody massacre, I will seek the death penalty," said Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas. "The circumstances of this case are so terrible and incomprehensible that the aggravating factors overwhelm any possible mitigation."

 "The murders that occurred on October 12 are by far the most horrific tragedy in our city's history. This incident will forever impact the lives of so many of us, who live, work and visit our great community," said Seal Beach Acting Chief of Police Tim Olson. "I am proud of the swift and effective action of the men and women of the Seal Beach Police Department as well as the assistance we received from so many of our law enforcement partners, for which we are grateful."

Death Penalty Decision
In the majority of special circumstances murder cases, the District Attorney convenes a special circumstances committee consisting of the District Attorney, the Senior Assistant and Assistant District Attorney in charge of the Homicide Unit, and other prosecutors experienced in capital cases after an indictment or preliminary hearing. The committee discusses the defendant's record, the nature of the crime, and the vulnerability of the victim, among other factors.  The committee also considers mitigating circumstances from the defense attorney.  The final decision to pursue the death penalty rests on the District Attorney.

In certain extreme cases, such as mass murders, the District Attorney may decide to seek the death penalty without the necessity of a special circumstances committee. The aggravating circumstances in these cases far outweigh any possible mitigating circumstances.

Based on the violent and indiscriminate nature of this crime, the District Attorney determined that the committee was unnecessary in his decision to seek the death penalty.

Circumstances of the Crime
On the morning of Oct. 12, 2011, Dekraai is accused of getting into a verbal argument on the phone with his ex-wife, 48-year-old Michelle Marie Fournier, over a custody dispute regarding their 8-year-old son.

At approximately 1:20 p.m. on Oct. 12, 2011, Dekraai is accused of entering Salon Meritage, located on the 500 block of Pacific Coast Highway in Seal Beach, where his ex-wife worked as a hair stylist. The defendant is accused of wearing a bullet-proof vest under his clothing and arming himself with three firearms before walking into the salon with the intention of murdering his ex-wife and other people who may have been present. Approximately 15 people were inside at the time.

At 1:21 p.m. Dekraai is accused of walking through the salon and executing employees and customers at random, as well as Fournier, by shooting them at close range in the head and chest. The firearms included a 9 MM Springfield, Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and a Heckler & Koch .45.

He is accused of shooting several of the victims multiple times using two of the firearms as they lay dying, stopping to reload when his ammunition ran out. The shooting lasted approximately two minutes.

The other people inside the salon attempted to escape by hiding, locking themselves in private treatment rooms, or running outside. Dekraai is accused of shooting eight people inside the salon.

Six of the eight victims inside the salon were pronounced dead at the scene. The two other victims were transported to Long Beach Memorial Medical Center in critical condition. One of those victims died that afternoon at the hospital. The eighth victim remains in critical condition.

The seven murdered victims from inside the salon include (in alphabetical order): Victoria Ann Buzzo, 54, Laguna Beach, salon employee; Laura Lee Elody, 46, Huntington Beach, salon employee; Randy Lee Fannin, 62, Murrieta, salon owner; Michele Daschbach Fast, 47, Seal Beach, salon client; Michelle Marie Fournier, 48, Los Alamitos, salon employee; Lucia Bernice Kondas, 65, Huntington Beach, salon client; and Christy Lynn Wilson, 47, Lakewood, salon employee.

Victim Harriet Stretz, 73, Los Alamitos, is in critical condition. She was a salon client having her hair done by her daughter, victim Elody.

After his murderous shooting rampage inside the salon, Dekraai is accused of walking out of the salon. As he approached his white Toyota Tundra pick-up truck to flee the scene, the defendant is accused of observing a dark sport utility vehicle parked nearby with a male seated in the driver's seat. Dekraai is accused of approaching the victim, who was alone in his car, and executing him by shooting him in the head through the closed front passenger side window.

This victim was David Caouette, 64, Seal Beach.

An SBPD officer, who was nearby in the neighborhood, was the first to arrive at the scene in response to a 911 call from a person in the restaurant next door to the salon. Witnesses pointed the officer to the defendant's vehicle as Dekraai attempted to drive away.

SBPD dispatch received information from the 911 caller at 1:25:36 p.m. that the defendant was driving away from the scene. At 1:26:07 p.m., only 30 seconds later, the defendant was stopped by SBPD in an emergency traffic stop.

Officers from SBPD yelled for the defendant to exit his vehicle with their guns drawn. Dekraai is accused of getting out of his car, getting down on his knees, placing his hands behind his head, and was arrested.  At the time of his arrest, Dekraai is accused of being in possession of the three firearms and a significant amount of ammunition in his truck.

Dekraai was booked at the Seal Beach City Jail and was later transported to the Orange County Jail.

The investigation is ongoing. Anyone with additional information is encouraged to contact Supervising District Attorney Investigator Randy Litwin at (714) 347-8492 or SBPD Detective Gary Krogman at (562) 799-4100 ext.1108.

The OCDA and SBPD would like to thank the following law enforcement agencies for their response to the scene and assistance in the investigation: Anaheim Police Department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, California Highway Patrol, Cypress Police Department, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Huntington Beach Fire Department, Huntington Beach Police Department, La Palma Police Department, Long Beach Police Department, Los Alamitos Police Department, OCDA Bureau of Investigation, Orange County Fire Authority, Orange County Sheriff's Department, and Westminster Police Department..

UPDATE, OCT. 14, 11:17 A.M.: An emotional District Attorney Tony Rackauckas, breaking down several times at the press conference podium in his Santa Ana office, just announced he will seek the death penalty for Scott Evans Dekraai, the alleged deadliest killer in Orange County history.

Noting that he normally convenes a committee before making such call, Rackauckas said "of course I will seek the death penalty" due to the "terrible" and "incomprehensible" crime.

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81 comments
vehicle tracking
vehicle tracking

Awesome blog post ! I always like to read your blog post.

Barbara R
Barbara R

It made me sick to see a smiling photo of this guy.  Why they chose to put that in this is beyond me.  Personally I think this dude should be Pro Se.  He has a right to a defense, yes, but let it be his own without counsel.  I'm so pleased to hear that no attorney wants to touch this case.  The guy doesn't deserve an attorney and if no attorney steps forward then he's on his own.  There's no jury to even consider.  Let him stand before the judge and get the death penalty.  Nothing to fight.  Nothing to defend.  

Knicholas
Knicholas

I read that the killer received a huge settlement from the company he worked for when he was injured on the job. So, yes he can afford a lawyer, why should tax money go to the evil man's defense?

SALCEDOIS
SALCEDOIS

HE IS SMILING BECAUSE THE NRA AND THE 2ND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THE CALVARY FUCKERS THAT LOVE THE EYE FOR AN EYE GIVE THEM THE OK............I WOULDNT BE SURPRISE THAT SOON WILL HAVE A GUN SHOW EITHER INSEAL BEACH OR COSTA MEXICO FOR SURE.......JUST THE WAY WE LIKE IT.....

Lweiss1957
Lweiss1957

Does it really matter if his skin is white, brown, yellow, tan, black......it's a man. Still has a penis. Every man needs to get over the race factor and look at what happened. The crazy man killed his x-wife and others around her because he was pissed off. It's overwhelming in every way. If his last name was Gionardo, Thomas, Macias, or Smith....stating that he was a white man is reporting the story.

Treanahart
Treanahart

Where was the shooter Scott Dekari going after he fled the salon? Was he just going to pick up his son from school? Or was he going to continue his mass murdering?

soubrette
soubrette

Are you serious? Eight people were murdered, and you make it about racism? Let's focus, people, on what happened.

kuewa
kuewa

Trazadone and Topamax are NOT anti-psychotic agents. This guy is apparently aiming for an insanity plea and was smart enough to laugh for his mugshot, which will probably be entered into evidence.

mitch young
mitch young

It's pretty silly to be arguing the sociology of these mass shootings, but since the point has been raised, let's remember of few recent ones

Shareef Allman, black, Cupertino (same day Jobs died), 3 dead, 6 wounded. 

Omar Thorton, black, August 2010, 9 dead (including himself), 2 injured

 Seung-Hui Cho, Asian 23,  33 dead, including himself

That's off the top of my head. I can think of more white mass shooters, but remember, there are still a lot more white people in the US as a whole than any other group. 

I can't think of any Mexican mass shooters, but there is Richard Rodriguez, the night stalker.

GetOfftheBench
GetOfftheBench

People get divorced because they cannot get along, they are unable to agree [including on parenting decisions,] and so they are splitting up their lives. Sometimes it is better to give sole custody for the CHILD'S benefit, regardless of whether the both parents are "fit" because it creates stability for THE CHILD. This father never harmed his child, and is characterized as a "doting father."  Would anyone here like to argue that Drakkai is a "fit parent?"

The judge in this case should be removed from the bench. This custody case was not based on an error of "judicial discretion," it is blatant outright incompetance, neglect, recklessness and disrespect for the public's welfare and the esteem of the bench. Here is what the judge in this case knew:

1.  That Drakkai had a history of physically assaulting his step father, and that there was a restraining order, and that Drakkai was ordered to turn over his fire arms [which he did not do.]

2.  That the above referenced assault occurred in front of Drakkai's 4 year old [now 8.]

3.  That Drakkai had a long history of physically assaulting and terrorizing his previous 2 wives, including the mother [claims found credible.]

4.  That Drakkai had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, that he was prone to psychotic incidences, that he was unstable, and that he was not maintaining his treatment and medication for his mental illness.

5.  That Drakkai had a problem with pain killers.

6.  That the parents clearly could not even have a conversation or remain in the same room, so there was no way they could co-parent.

7.  That the parental evaluator found they were unable to coparent, but that they should continue to split custody, with Drakkai [unemployed, violent, psychotic, hooked on drugs] should retain his 56% timeshare while the mother [gainfully employed, clean, not violent] should continue to be forced to subject herself and her son to Drakkai's unhealthy and DANGEROUS access to her life.

The other thing that sticks out in my mind is that many articles reference the fact that the parties were being cleaned out by attorney's fees---despite the fact that the above referenced factors made it clear that the mother should have had sole custody, the father having no time or access what so ever to the child.

I hope all the victim's families sue this judge, the evaluator, and Drakkai's family court lawyer because they should not have access to the decisions effecting vulnerable families stuck in the courts.  This pretty much proves they are INCOMPETANT and DANGEROUS.

Culichi1967
Culichi1967

Bitch Young: Shut your cracker ass up. Dead kluckers and history will always be intriguing (to the analytical mind, at least. Certainly not yours). To the rest: It is truly tragic that 8 are dead but Tommy Gomez is spot on. Wabs and negritos usually kill mano a mano or maybe 3 on 3 but pinchi gabachos, man, they really like to Super Size it, don't they? And didn't Gov. Spacebeam last week vetoe a provision that would have allowed the open-carry of unoaded firearms to crazy gabachos like this one? I can already hear the fucktard NRA apologists: "Guns don't kill people, people do",  "In the proper hands, an armed civilian would have avoided this tragedy ..."

Fucken retards. Like we really need another wild west scenario. Even trained cops get stupid and trigger happy.

Anyway, like Tommy implied, had it been a wab or negrito, all of you fascist nazis would have been lining with a noose. Hell, you would have gone Matthew Shepard had it been a jotito.

You and I know that race matters in EVERYTHING (unfortunately). We will stop talkign about it once you stop making it an issue, compreden? In the meantime, let's learn from this sad episode, teach our kids to do the right thing, and hold hands and sing kumbaya.     

Payton Chacalos
Payton Chacalos

Send him to hell with a letter of introduction from the Governor. Do it quick before someone offers him a plea bargain.

Guest
Guest

Wow.  My heart and prayers go out to the families and friends of the victims.  And also to the poor kid who will grow up knowing what his coward-assed dad did to his mom and all those others.

Now, on to Dekraai.  Too bad they can't just put his punk bitch man-boobs ass on the mainline and let jailhouse justice run its course.  Hey, I can wish, can't I?

Anyhow, once again, too all the victims, may God Bless your souls.  Really sorry to hear about this.

Fluffatu
Fluffatu

Coker- I know you are reporting what you hear, but coming from someone who lost several friends yesterday (and a, blessed to get to hold some that made it out), you facts are wrong. Scott had been very sick for a while. He had mental problems well before the tugboat incidnet. The plea of PTSD is insulting to the clients that I work with that are truly afflicted with it.

After dealing with physical abuse for years, Michelle tried to leave, only to be met with Scott holding a gun to his head saying he would kill himself. Knowing that the coward should have done the job on himself then instead of taking the lives of innocents is hard for me to reconcile.

The salon co-owner stayed alive by luck of logistics- back in the "color mixing" room. Two others locked themselves in a bathroom. Others locked themselves in another room. No one "played dead".

Now I have to pick up the pieces the best I can for my friend who heard their friend of 20 years plea for her life and gurgle to her death while her mother watched because of this "good dad".

I am as liberal as they come, but I hope this guy gets what he deserves, and that won't be enough.

RIP V, L, R, K, M and get well soon H.

mitch young
mitch young

Hey you know, you guys could actually send someone out there. We've already established you don't go south of Culver (Blvd), seems like you don't go north(west) of what? Magnolia. Beach Blvd? 

Anyways, Seal Beach is right their, if memory serves, off the 22.

Jbrowns
Jbrowns

Scott was a long time seal beach resident, was always unstable. He was pretty much disowned by his grandfather, and was divorced 2 times because he was abusive, He was always talking about doing things like this, and "the devoted father"  had tried to kill himself with his son in his arms several years ago. He was/is a selfish manipulator, who will now try to portray himself as a victim. He deserves the death penalty. He is a disgrace to Seal Beach.

outac0ntrolllllll
outac0ntrolllllll

Looks like pimbot is here too.  What a freak.  He's out of controooooollll.

Zak
Zak

Nothing worse than a custody battle lost, sadly this is becoming more common, husband losses it and kills wife not everyone, I'm sure he's regretting it tonight, to late he'll never see his wife and kids again, everyone losses now.

Tom Gomez
Tom Gomez

WOW!!! Was it a Mexican, a Blackman, or immigrant...NAH!!! neither just a crazy white man who got his heart broken..When the whites attack they kill in numbers......and are always killing over a girlfiend or X wife. Give me a break!!! No woman worth going to prison for.

If it was a Mexican or Blackman forget it...The first thing the news and locals would say is that it was Illegal Immigrant .....But guess whats ..HE WAS WHITE!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Whitey will be meeting Tyron and Pedro.

John
John

You're a terrible writer.

Joe
Joe

Thank you for pointing that out.....yet the dumb-skis will continue......... 

Guest
Guest

The Night Stalker was Mexican, but he didn't shoot anyone.

2Close4Comfort
2Close4Comfort

I have something to say about this, but need to put some space between this incident and doing so.  Your good observations make me think you might be able to understand some more basic things about the courts, including what a hazard they have become to the communities they are in, and make bad custody decisions (for profit) in.

I write as a survivor of DV, family court hell (years of it), an overnight instant child-napping (which is a felony in CA but was treated as ever as a "custody dispute.") A typical contested case can go years, even if both parties are broke, because there are federal grants encouraging fathers (particularly anyone with arrears in Child Support) to litigate when they don't even want to; the money for those, and others, also is redirected from federal policy grants to encourage marriage and fatherhood.  

We thought times had changed, but the HHS is in retrograde, and approving millions of grants to organizations that are anti-divorce, anti-homosexuality (they rejoice in invading California to correct the situation), anti-abortion, and some of them seem to believe that abstinence education is going to stop AIDS.  I'm not kidding, and I investigate these groups, because I deserve a straight answer for what my own family went through (3 generations of it) and we're not done yet. 

Essentially, the USA is going kinda fascist (centralized control) as far as I can say, based on fear-mongering, including the backlash to feminism (at least part of which entailed helping women stay alive, despite violent marriages).  It is billions, not millions, involved in fueling this.  It has to do with welfare reform, George Bush (ruling by Executive Order, versus congressional vote) and I have to say that some of this does have to do with (sorry guys, love ya') a Congress that is majority white male, such that many women senators/legislators (not all) who come to power can't properly stick up for their own kind and take flack for it, by saying NO! to the fatherhood rhetoric of the late 1990s and still going on. 

To only look at incidents, personalities, or individual judges is to still continue not understanding.  There is a resonance to the whole structure that has to be heard.  I believe that the best people to hear this include females who have stayed alive by paying attention to the dynamics and signals they have been hearing prior to dealing with family court (and after), which up to that point DID keep them alive -- i.e., Michelle Fournier separated, right?

She had a right to live.  He shot, but who set up the situation where they had to interact, ongoing?  What the _ _ _ _? is a court appointed psychologist doing in there, and I'd like to know WHO it was (and who was the ruling judge?).  I know how this thing works now, and have investigative skills, and am networked to get that info out, inbetween PTSD provoked by hearing about the latest incident too close to home.  

We have entire families, sometimes, in shellshock, and it's not just confined to urban neighborhoods.  The middle class is funding this, so it's time they woke up and spoke up.   DV versus Fatherhood are playing "Good Cop/Bad Cop" in public, but have become indistinguishable -- they respect each other's territorial rights and the House (incl. the family law system) wins every single time.   

DV splits up the family with a RO (much needed) and FR in the family law insists they can't divorce, really -- they must remain joined at the hip and sign up for therapy, which will be needed when that's with a psychotic ex who doesn't share well. (Get the marketing plan yet?).  A parent who was initially helped by any DV agency is immediately DROPPED and kicked to the wolves, without economic backing.  If Child Support is in the mix, to allegedly help the children, it quickly becomes another leverage to keep the family in turmoil.   

You can see this in even what little's out about this Seals Beach case.....

The only difference between this and a free market is that you're paying for the corporations to be set up that service the court, the people that staff the court and the judges that send business to them; the child support system that fuels it (and welfare) and even for - - - -  well, a lot more at:

http://familycourtmatters.word...

I realize am lecturing, but this is my way of getting back at a very destructive system, and maybe a legacy for my kids that had to run the gauntlet.  Only when I left the abusive relationship did I begin to understand the systemic war for control of children -- not just parents between each others, but all the others who want to get their licks in, based on some wet-dream utopia they set up (and continue to revise at the conference level) many years ago, without running it, ALL of it, by the public.

Guest
Guest

You are so right. People should do the right thing. Just like all of those illegal aliens fucking assholes should go back to their country where they are LEGAL citizens. Just because you are here doesn't mean you belong here. Right Gus?

mitch young
mitch young

That's right, Gustavo, let it out. Venting if fun...even on the internet under a sock puppet alias.

2Close4Comfort
2Close4Comfort

I wish you well.  Perhaps in the future someone could get Orange County to open up its family law docket just so people planning to get married in the area can see what kind of history the fiancee has. Right now, it looks like you can't even get a list of what the cases are on-line unless the court orders you to.        

"After dealing with physical abuse for years, Michelle tried to leave, only to be met with Scott holding a gun to his head saying he would kill himself"

A lot of women in relationships like that know that action.  Nowadays it almost seems like men of this (set of problems) are competing with each other -- who can take out more people on the way out.  This is the LOGICAL consequence of women as property in our culture, and having one set of people say marriage will save the world and the laws on the books saying, you're allowed to divorce.

The time to get out of an abusive relationship is ASAP, at the first signs -- BUT if one has a child with that person, doing this may end up with custody going to the abuser shortly after, so it's not an easy call.  Do you happen to know who the court-apppointed psychologist (or judge) was in this case? was there zero child support happening, or was that a factor at all?

I'm sorry to ask, but I've seen 20 years of my life go by dealing with that first poor choice of spouse, and I want a track record left that can help others avoid it.  Please try and get some care for yourself too when it gets too vicarious trauma....

I sincerely believe that the family courts need to be dismantled, and another way has to be found.  Either that or marriage is just going to become absolutely too dangerous for women, overall.  The whole schema is to minimize abuse and re-frame it as psychological problems, or failure to understand how to co-parent, etc.  What do we think that court person was doing on the case to start with?  

909Jeff
909Jeff

youre close.  its south of where the 405 and 22 Merge and the interchange with the 605

Joe
Joe

If what you say is true, the Courts should have known this mans capabilities........"The all or nothing" mentality is what happens to many men when everything and the last thing he believes he loves and cherishes is taken from him.  The powers that be should be providing counciling to these men before they go overboard, not after when its to late.   My sympathy to all victims............ 

Tiffini Travis
Tiffini Travis

i dont think he is regretting it- you see that mugshot? thats a pretty stoked individual. what a fucker. 

Whitey
Whitey

Tommy, here is the botton line. You will always be a Mexican, no matter what you do or what you say. You will always be a Mexican. Just remember that. It's "whiteys" like me that hire you. And fire you. You could even become president of the US (not likely since you are probably an illegal alien), and you're STILL going to be looked down on as being a Mexican.

Just deal with it. Now, get back to hanging out in front of the Uhaul moving place so that I can drive by and give you the finger.

Jack
Jack

8 people liked your comment? (one would think this is a Yahoo! forum, but, apparently, it's a 'yahoo' forum).

Evil_white_person
Evil_white_person

Tom, Your comment shows your true racism.   Oh, I forgot.  Only whites can be racists. 

The problem with your comment is you fail to miss the fact that it was a crazy man on a rampage over a custody dispute, NOT a gang shooting or robbery gone bad.   

Regardless of your racism, how about feeling badly for the the victims and their families.  We evil whites do the same for innocent victims and their families when a non-white is killed.

Black Stocking Fetish
Black Stocking Fetish

Seems Like gomez in Jealous of White People..  Poor Guy..   Notice at the end He still refers ''Pedro''   as some mexican name?    He Might as well added mexican men are Hard workers at the car wash.

mitch young
mitch young

Here's the thing -- Seal Beach will still have fewer murders than Santa Ana this year. This might put them over the top per capita, but in a few years even that will fade. But the drip-drip-drip of murders in Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, Stanton -- that will just keep on rolling.

NoFear
NoFear

Proof that racism is alive and well in america. Only this time the perpetrator is not a white man but a hispanic. Thanks for keeping ignorance and bigotry alive.

liberals are hypocrites
liberals are hypocrites

wow you are so happy that 9 people died... kind of shows you what scum mexicans are... now go back to unclogging that toilet pedro

mitch young
mitch young

That's why I said 'I can't think of any Mexican mass shooters...

Joe
Joe

 You are at the top of your class .........coward! 

Culichi1967
Culichi1967

Like I said, Bitch Young, shut the fuck up, pendejo. Better yet, open up and say 'ah'.

Dweezle.Di
Dweezle.Di

Sorry Jeff, actually it is also a mile north of the 405 East of the 605.

mitch young
mitch young

The greater Los Alamitos, Seal Beach megalopolis. 

2Close4Comfort
2Close4Comfort

I read a document the other day, speaking of systems failure, where a conference was held at Univ. of Chicago, with an "Institute for American Values" (divorce is obviously in the context, anti-American) and another group which is a for-profit marketing marriage education classes (since 1996, probably when they could cash in on the welfare reform and get some financial backing to promote this, from "TANF" funds) (CHMCE, LLC makes the materials, it's Diane Sollee & Friends), and the Project at the UCDiv school -- where they listed what they all agreed on.

One of the points made was that marriage is for incubating fathers (i.e., taming their wild selves). Kinda mixed metaphor ("incubate") but this appears to be another good use for women -- taming men.  Guess it doesn't always work.

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.a...(look up "Orange County Marriage Coalition" and you'll see its status, "SUSPENDED")

Entity NumberDate FiledStatusEntity NameAgent for Service of ProcessC288489806/23/2006SUSPENDEDORANGE COUNTY HEALTHY MARRIAGE AND FAMILY COALITIONDENNIS J STOICA

Formed in order to get the 2006 round of healthy marriage grants.  Dennis Stoica also was a co-founder of the larger California Healthy Marriages Coalition which got an $11 million grant to push the curricula.  These and other programs are being pushed through the courts.  Stoica formed another organization in FL with paying membership and was connected with some man in the HHS/ACF employment, who referred religious groups to him for taking seminars on how to get the grants.  This is what the courts are thinking about -- and not people's safety -- when they make rulings, appoint psychologists (who make excuses for prior violence) and etc.

I know this isn't the comment thread to discuss this on, but the longer the courts prolong the drama -- regardless of ongoing murder/suicide headlines, which have been throughout the history of it -- the more money comes into the system, both from parents (if they can afford it) from the child support system, and from the Federal Government, and trickledown grants to County level.  

Whatever this couple's background was, or wasn't, that's the audience they were "playing to" any time they came to court.  

That court-appointed psychologist must've been full of him (or her)self, and not having the eyes open on this one.  This is why any criminal matters shouldn't even be in family courts, and when there has been criminal activity by ONLY one parent, the other parent should get that kid, period, and think about quitting the criminality while they miss their children.  

There was a salon shooting in Northern California 3 years ago, and the father couldn't find his wife, so he shot a woman associated with her instead -- after busting up the hair salon -- and this was done in front of his three children.  An officer was also killed, and finally a 2nd office shot the man. (victim Torres, Sandoval (father), Starzcyk (officer).  Do the courts adjust their policies just because people are dying?  Heck no.

Anyone say yet where he got all that weaponry?

Joe
Joe

I like your mentallity, keep thinking that way...it's gettin mighty brown around here.......just a matter of time.....................  :)

Soho_d J
Soho_d J

You are one simple dumb fuck aren't you!

Joe
Joe

Thank you Mitch for one of the dumbest, rebuttals yet to be written...........

Keep Tryin
Keep Tryin

you sir are reeeeeely stupid!  people like you should be confined from society where you can promote your ignorant hatred to other like minded morons but the rest of the sane and more intelligent population can live in peace!

Joe
Joe

Was a very sad story, and my deepest condolences to the victims, family and friends of this trajedy.  Unlike your hating I will offer my sorrows...... However, Tom was pointing out the thruth, had this been a non-white you racist would be commenting on how Mexicans or Blacks were born to commit violence.  I ask you Mr. Tard to please explain this mans reasons for commiting such an act of violence?  Was it due to the history of whites slaughtering innocents?  You know Manifest Destiny, type of stuff............ 

Dweezle.Di
Dweezle.Di

I understand Gomez's feelings. and from what I have seen/read they are validated often, but not always. I do not believe because he failed to express sorrow for the victims that he was making fun of them, he was simply making a jest at the social climate in the USA

Guest
Guest

Thanks Culichi, and keep up the great job of being a representative of the Mexican community. You are one classy act. See you later hanging out in front of Home Depot. Make sure you bring your tacos for lunch.

Black Stocking Fetish
Black Stocking Fetish

If I saw Gustavo Arellano walking down the street,  I would Think it's an Italian or jewish guy.

909Jejj
909Jejj

I would give mitch a sucking of a lifetime.. cum get it mitchie

909Jeff
909Jeff

I also think Mitch is a lot smarter than some of his comments, just a little rough around the edges. 

Ultimately I was responding to the fact (Like I said to Fish) that the media, no matter what, is going to sensationalize some aspect, and now it comes out that he is a former Marine.  And he suffers from a form of PTSD. Really all that matters is this animal killed 8 people senselessly. 

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

Why are you defending a moron? You're smarter than your comment...

Joe
Joe

Birds of a feather.meat-head. Only a pale-face would think no one is capable of understanding the connotation.........

909Jeff
909Jeff

Actually Joe Mitch is right!  The last homicide in Seal Beach was in 2005 and I think the last one before that was 1999.  Also, Mitch didn't mention race only cities. so If your thinking Mexicans thats on you. 

mitch young
mitch young

No, but totally speculating, it was probably a combination of a bitter custody battle, some after affects of a pretty bad accident on the tug boat the guy worked on, and who knows what else. 

Joe
Joe

I beleive you are the minority pale-face and you are sick!  Your not proud and your not brave, your a coward that hides behind your computer.....go out into the street and yell at the top of your lungs how you hate people of color and you will be shut down.  The difference between you and I is that I don't hate you.  But I will defend myself....thats the difference you will hate me but when it comes down to it, you will back down boy! 

Dweezle.Di
Dweezle.Di

Hmmm, let me see, North of the 55 is kinda hard to think of as minority since the 55 runs north & south it ends at the 91 where Anaheim Hills, Yorba Linda, & Villa Park border does not sound like ghetto territory to me...

Dweezle.Di
Dweezle.Di

I agree with you also, I did not think about how the guy apparently failed to think of the victims, they say to Assume makes an ASS of U & ME. I guess I believe the guy felt for the victims but perhaps he did not. Racism is ugly from any side.

Jack
Jack

yeah. I agree with you on what Tom Gomez's meaning was in making the comment. The thing is, he manages to focus on that specific subject, even, in light of this tragedy. A little annoying, to me.

Black Stocking Fetish
Black Stocking Fetish

Hey!!   Stop!!   were All Just Having Fun with the Battle of the Races..  It's what the democrats want.. well actually they want the Whites to Take the Minorities Rants at Us Whites while Whites do Nothing about it..  Keep in Mind Us Whites that Talk shit back are Proud Republicans and We Republicans Have Balls Of Steel..  We Don't even Like White Liberals..   So You minorities can have them..  Just let me warn you,  their either UGLY women we Would never Fuck or queer guys who talk like ladies with a lisp. . liberals are never attractive..;   Thats why they side with you minorities,  they Know We Long ago Rejected them ever since they were kids trying to get in our tree Houses.  No Matter How many Hispanics Blow up in Population,  they will always be looked at as minorities..  You know it and We Republicans Know it.  We Whites are the Superior Race..   Even if your democrat zionest politicians succeed in Killing us off in 50 to 100 years,  We Whites Are Booming In Russia,  Which Is A Very Powerful Country Now that is Strongly Right Wing and it's a Partner with China who has all the Cash..  You minorities may win Now,  But it is just a Temporary Position.     if you wanna a peek on America in 100 years,   Go to Youtube Russian Skinhead Videos and see whats in store For you.     Vladimir Putin Thinks you American minorities are Scum of the earth and He will Be elected again soon.   He will Bring Back the old Soviet Times.  They Will Invade when American Government is Pure chicano..   I even bet Russia will Merge with Mexico since Real Mexicanos Hate chicanos and fake mexicans in America.   Ive been to Mexico so many times...Those Folks Hate you wannabees up North.  They think your sellouts!  

2Close4Comfort
2Close4Comfort

Race has a lot to do with the situations that set the stage for this tragedy, which relate to the family court programs valuing marriage more than safety.  Those programs originate in part from grants to the courts to promote fatherhood, and from an association that helps fun the family law courts called "AFCC" and originating in Los Angeles.

I have read some of the Congressional Record and other rhetoric around these programs, as well as 1996 "welfare reform" from which people who run them learn to divert money which would otherwise go to the children. These policies were indeed racist and targeted towards people of color, particularly single mothers on welfare, on whom the scourge of violence, etc. was blamed (actually, it was blamed on "fatherlessness").  The Congress authorizing this was obviously majority white male.

Tom Gomez is absolutely right in noticing it was a white male, and if it had not been, the ethnicity would've been the leading edge.

http://www.ocmarriages.org/

What was a court-appointed psychologist doing on the scene making custody decisions when it was clear there was prior violence, the man had been traumatized and was medicated, was involved in a fairly recent tugboat accident in which another woman (reported as "female") died, etc., etc.   There had been prior suicide threats.  The ex-wife was frightened -- but because of these "shared-parenting-no-matter-what" policies,  if she left the area for safety, she would probably lose their son to this father.

I blog at http://familycourtmatters.word... and am going to be profiling some of these "healthy marriage / responsible fatherhood" grantees.  As a former person whose ex was suicidal, had been assaulting me in front of the children,  and who had been collecting guns and knives before we (the children and me) got out, and then more years of hell afterwards -- I have been seeking solid answers why the courts work as they do. 

The short answer is money -- and where it comes from is often public funds.

The only other thing I want to say here (because the incident -- just heard about it today-- is affecting me) is that if ONE person who owned a gun and was allowed to "open carry," had been trained in the laws, and had target practice, had been on the scene, perhaps ONE shot would've stopped the carnage.  But this open carry is of course a threat to the safety and stability of local businesses, and fathers in custody disputes are not (ever hear of a woman, of any color, going into a men's barber shop and shooting them up?  That doesn't happen).

Alternately, if there isn't going to be any physical restraint on fathers, specifically, who threaten to kill themselves over divorce, then the only sound thing is to quarantine ALL ex-wives with custody disputes from participating in public life, working, attending schools, or in any way living a normal life, for their own safety and the safety of bystanders.  This will eliminate the function of motherhood past living with the father, which is administration policy already anyhow.  (sarcasm intended in case you missed it).  

This was probably avoidable, particularly as the court no doubt knew of the accident, his PTSD, his suicide calls, and the associated medication which I BET was a factor, although it didn't pull the trigger.

mitch young
mitch young

Hey, why don't you stop your library research on long dead Kluxers and go dig up some special angle on this deal? Use that Jimmy the Cub Reporter notebook your Mom got you for Xmas.

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

Even in a tragedy, you can't stop your pathetic white-mongering...I'd say it's a sad situation if you weren't so decrepit.

Joe
Joe

So stupid.........to try and weigh senceless crimes..........continue to convince yourself that white is right and blacks and browns and reds, and yellows have no place in American society.  Keep jumping up and down, keep crying and posting your nonsence on blogs.  Keep being the coward that you are and not face those that you hate...........an idiot like you can never be convinced that all people have good and all people have bad.......... 

Jack Grimshaw
Jack Grimshaw

Hey, Bubba: If you took the time to write in English, rather than Gibberish, you'd have a little more credibility ...

mitch young
mitch young

Shit, no kidding. I didn't think any white people lived north of 55, especially on the flood plain. But man, they even interview white (well, Italian name) manicurist in newspaper articles. And the TV news showed a bunch of tow head, surfer looking kids. It was like 20-30 years ago OC.

Ronnie
Ronnie

Wacky pervert? How about the Austrian man who imprisoned and raped his daughter for thirty years, eventually fathering (grandfathering?) her children? Your arguments are asinine and completely without merit. There are crazy assholes of every race. How about Bree Hartman? She killed her husband and her child before turning the gun on herself. Of course, because there is such a large Hispanic population here, you're going to here more stories of crimes perpetuated by them than you would in say...Green Bay, Wisconsin. That doesn't mean that Hispanics are any more naturally-inclined to commit crimes or just generally be insane than any other race.

909Jeff
909Jeff

Yeah dweezle i would have to come down n the side of fish on this one.  I think the media will take anything they can use to sensationalize the story.  Had the man been Mexican or Illegal they would have reported it just like we'll begin to see more come out about his military career I'm certain of that.  BUT,  Tom has made recent appearances on other stories and lets just say he is very "Ethnocentric".  

Fish is right 8 people senselessly were killed and thats what we should be focused on. And also the poor kid who now will live the rest of is life without parents.  And to Ronnie, like I said its all sensationalism wait til they get a hold of his military records and paint him as a blood thirsty killer trained by the government, I'm only speculating but that's my guess

Black Stocking Fetish
Black Stocking Fetish

Nope wouldnt happen...   It said Seal Beach..     Not a mexican for miles..  

Black Stocking Fetish
Black Stocking Fetish

if thats True,  I would rather shoot Places up since Im a White Man,  Rather then Rape My Girlfriends 4 year old daughter or get My 11 year old Daughter pregnant..or for that matter with this new trend with hispanics, Killing my whole family including Myself because their going to foreclose on my house that I was Never able to afford in the first place.    So yeah lets put it on the scale..  I still rather be a Mass Killer then a Wacky pervert or a Guy who claims Love for the Famalia but kills them with along with Myself because of a Over due bill.

FishWithoutBicycle
FishWithoutBicycle

I absolutely agree! But there is also a time and place to bring the issue up...constructively.

Ronnie
Ronnie

True. I'm not defending Tom's statement. It's ignorant as well. I'm simply stating that, for some reason, society tends to view tragedies through the prism of race.

FishWithoutBicycle
FishWithoutBicycle

I understand your point, but spouting equally (unnecessary) hateful rhetoric when the shoe is on the other foot doesn't help anything. It's inappropriate for anyone to make irrelevant comments about anyone's race. Period.

Ronnie
Ronnie

Race has a great deal to do with how we react to the story. If this had been a Mexican guy, people would be spewing hateful, ignorant rhetoric decrying all Mexicans....sort of like that douchebag, "Liberals are hyporcrites", did with the broad generalization of "kind of shows you what scum Mexicans are". Any rational individual knows that there are crazy assholes in every race, and that being psychotic is not simply exclusive to one group of people of the other.

FishWithoutBicycle
FishWithoutBicycle

All "jesting" aside, what does race have to do DIRECTLY with this terrible tragedy? 8 PEOPLE ARE DEAD at the hands of a crazed man...do you think I really give a damn what color he is? I'm not trying to unload on YOU, but I abhor Tom Gomez's kind of race-baiting. What purpose does it serve? We should focus on the victims and their families. Isn't that what's important at this moment?

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