Chuck Smith Blasts, Threatens Calvary Chapel Abuse Survivor from the Pulpit of CC Costa Mesa

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Sorry that I'm late to this, but here's a blockbuster: last week, from the pulpit of the Calvary Chapel mothership in SanTana (even though they call themselves CC Costa Mesa), head Chuck Smith blasted an abuse survivor of one of his pastors and promised divine retribution upon the victim for daring to criticize him.

The survivor was Alex Grenier, stepson of Calvary Chapel Visalia pastor Bob Grenier, whose story we've documented here at Navel Gazing, including a recent meeting between Grenier and Smith in which Chuckie essentially called Grenier a liar and refused to remove Bob from the pulpit.

Well, savaging Alex in person wasn't enough for Chuckie: he had to do it publicly, as well.

You're going to have to go over to Alex's blog to hear the full slam (and you should visit Alex's blog, anyway), in which Smith acknowledges Alex's stepfather was abusive but never mentions him by name to his minions or even bothers to let them know that Bob Grenier is a Calvary Chapel pastor--for all Chuckie's cult knows, Alex is just a random stranger.

But the best part comes near his remarks on Grenier. "I feel sorry for the guy," Smith tells his followers, "because...what I could do wouldn't hurt much, but I'll tell you what the Lord can do can really..." Smith chuckled a bit, then ended, "I'm glad I have the Lord on my side."

This is the exact card Smith pulled in 2007, when Christianity Today--hardly a radical voice in Christian circles--published an exposé on Smith's lax oversight of sex abuse at Calvary Chapel. The story noted that Smith told the CT reporter. "The Lord warns, 'Don't touch my anointed. Do my prophet no harm.' I think that you are trying to do harm to the work of God. I surely wouldn't want to be in your shoes."

Is Chuck Smith now taking PR lessons from Diocese of Orange Bishop Tod D. Brown? Heckuva job, Brownie!


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97 comments
dezine0317
dezine0317

The irony is that Chuck Smith has died and my pastor Bob Coy, left CCFTL in disgrace. No more tough talking from the cult leaders. It seems Alex would be correct in his critique of Calvary Chapel.

pontsse
pontsse

A real living and breathing asshole, for real.

pontsse
pontsse

A real living asshole

BobbyBostonBeans
BobbyBostonBeans

pastor chuck smith ...i commend him on reading bible to his people, but, i think he should go one step further and challenge the flock to read the verses ahead of time ..takng advantage of the week to make it possible to get more out of sermon and have church grow as people grow and get into bible...and get amazed by it...just depending on one man to read the verses one time is not a good way to get revival going!

CARLOS
CARLOS

WHAT IS IT..IN ABOUT ANY BLOG OR ARTICLE IN THE "MEDIA"...CHRISTIANS IN GENERAL ARE SLAMMED OR BELITTLED..RARELY DO YOU HEAR OR READ WHERE LIVES ARE CHANGED AND HEALING COMES INTO THE HEART AND LIVES OF OTHERS..I AM AN "EX" HEROIN ADDICT AND EX-CONVICT..AND GOD CHANGED MY LIFE OVER 40 YEARS AGO..NONE OF US ARE WITHOUT SIN..NO NOT EVEN "CHUCKIE" (AS YOU TOYFULLY PUT HIS NAME) THERE IS "NO" RESPECT WHATSOEVER" IN YOUR ARENA OF DEPICTING OTHERS AS "BELOW" YOUR OWN INTEGRITY! NO WONDER YOUR SALES (NEWSPAPER) ARE STRUGGELNG TO SURVIVE..AS ONE TIRES OF VIEWING T.V. OR READING SUCH OBVIOUS FIERY DARTS OF ANIMOSITY..LIKE: BILL MAHR...AND OTHERS WHO MAKE THEIR LIVING PUTTING OTHERS BELOW HIM! I WISH YOU WOULD DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU "MOUTH-OFF" YOUR COMPLAINT...YOU TAKE ONE SITUATION (OBVIOUSLY NOT INVESTIGATED) AND SLANDER ANOTHER..."THE BIBLE NEVER SAID WE (CHRISTIANS) ARE WITHOUT SIN..WE ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD! ALL I CAN SAY IS..I AM SORRY FOR YOU AND YOUR NARROW THINKING OF ANGER AND HATE YOU SHARE WITH OTHERS..AND THAT YOU MIGHT ONE DAY..FIND TRUE SATISFACTION AND PEACE..NOT IN MAN...BUT IN GOD! MAN WILL FAIL YOU...AND THE LORD WILL NOT!!

StephenFreese
StephenFreese

Any attempt to be less than honest here by any commentator is pathetic if you consider yourself a follow of Christ. Some of the folks here are telling the truth and others are either misinformed and blindly believing something or are simply untruthful. I do not which at this time but it is so outrages we are even having these conversations. What about the cross and the people waiting to be freed from the bondage of impending judgement? It is a disgrace and an afront to a Holy God to have ANYONE lie knowingly, especially for public consumption and it makes me sick, either if it is the most revered pastor or a simply follower of Christ.

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

The crafty, cunningly deceptive cult leader to tens of thousands, Calvary Chapel's own Chuck Smith, declared this to caller Alexa on the November 9, 2011 edition of "Pastor's Perspective":" . . . there are a lot of good Mormons who do believe in Jesus and I believe they’ll be in heaven."                  WHAT CONSTITUTES A "GOOD" MORMON??   Let's see, we've got a false prophet as it's founder, a false church, several false religious books, false works theology, and a FALSE CHRIST!!!  Why does Chuck Smith believe they will be in heaven? BECAUSE, NO SURPRISE, SMITH OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE HE CLAIMS HE DOES!!!!!  Chuck Smith does not want to "offend" anyone.  He'd rather smile that ridiculous grin, pat people on the back, and let them go to Hell!!!!!   

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

Deceiver Chuck Smith responded to a caller (Beverly) on his "Pastor's Perspective" radio program on November 23, 2011, telling her this: " . . . you know you know Catholics are basically Christians too . . ."Thus, the slippery Smith comforts millions of lost Catholics that they are Christians, and thus SAVED!!!  If that doesn't concern die-hard Smith defenders, then you are beyond help.  You've been turned over to a reprobate mind!  REPENT!!!!! Stop following a deceiver!

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

False teacher Chuck Smith told a caller (Ben) on his "Pastor's Perspective" radio program on November 10, 2011 this: "Ben I have a cousin who was a Mother Superior in the Catholic Church, and uh, she was just a wonderful Christian, loved her and we had great conversations together, and I didn’t try to convert her from Catholicism nor did she try to convert me uh into becoming a Catholic, its just we both recognize that uh you know we have, we had the same Lord, and the same uh faith ya know and so uh we just uh you know on those things we agreed upon we just agreed upon and we didn’t really bring up the things where there were disagreements."The reason Chuck Smith felt he didn't have to "convert" his Catholic Mother Superior cousin is because he serves the same devil she does.  And if you think that's rough, just wait until God Almighty gets His hands on him!

dorian
dorian

I wish accountability was firm from the 90's but it simply was not. I remember calling their prayer lines to report some disturbing situations and they hung up on me. When I called back to attempt to identify their prayer line steward I was met with: I do not know what you are on about, and unless you could give us a name we are going to have to cut the line. I was infuriated and I drove over to the church to report this barbarism to the senior staff and the same protocol was firmly in place, they were not having it. Somehow reports are seen as complaints. I wish it were merely a simply complaint, but when the church was in trouble by what I witnessed it was from 1985. People were not prepared nor willing to address questions of accountability, it was simply to embarrasing and shameful.

I could tell all that because of some of the neglect we have lost already two members of our people. to think of any suicidal on the lines not refered or hung up on whom was a CC member horrified me so that I walked away, and that was from when I was still in highschool in the county!

Complacency is a serious fetter, but it is common practice for the underworld to methodically and conveniently place its throne right there with the saints whom are on the cutting edge of Holy tabernacle. Why anyone would come at me or anyone else with sordid shock is clearly pretencious.

The answer is not: "I didn't do it". . . "Wasn't me" is the same kind of corruption which has brought down some of the worlds cutting edge congregations. Living off some past prime doesn't bake the bread anymore. Where there is no new bread baking you will find empty shelves. People do not go to dead bakeries. If there is no running water then the swamplife has to come to an end. Many congregations need to know their membership. Staying present is sharpening. Our scriptures warn us of keeping aware of the times, and the signs. It even goes as far as to warn us not to lose our crowns by treachery.

Trashed fellowship

Dora
Dora

I wish accountability was firm from the 90's but it simply was not. I remember calling their prayer lines to report some disturbing situations and they hung up on me. When I called back to attempt to identify their prayer line steward I was met with: I do not know what you are on about, and unless you could give us a name we are going to have to cut the line. I was infuriated and I drove over to the church to report this barbarism to the senior staff and the same protocol was firmly in place, they were not having it. Somehow reports are seen as complaints. I wish it were merely a simply complaint, but when the church was in trouble by what I witnessed it was from 1985. People were not prepared nor willing to address questions of accountability, it was simply to embarrasing and shameful.

I could tell all that because of some of the neglect we have lost already two members of our people. to think of any suicidal on the lines not refered or hung up on whom was a CC member horrified me so that I walked away, and that was from when I was still in highschool in the county!

Complacency is a serious fetter, but it is common practice for the underworld to methodically and conveniently place its throne right there with the saints whom are on the cutting edge of Holy tabernacle. Why anyone would come at me or anyone else with sordid shock is clearly pretencious.

The answer is not: "I didn't do it". . . "Wasn't me" is the same kind of corruption which has brought down some of the worlds cutting edge congregations. Living off some past prime doesn't bake the bread anymore. Where there is no new bread baking you will find empty shelves. People do not go to dead bakeries. If there is no running water then the swamplife has to come to an end. Many congregations need to know their membership. Staying present is sharpening. Our scriptures warn us of keeping aware of the times, and the signs. It even goes as far as to warn us not to lose our crowns by treachery.

Trashed fellowship

Danielmorgan36
Danielmorgan36

Hey Alex,

     Why don't you just admit that you got your ass beat by your dad because you were a punk jerk of a kid! Cry baby, cr!. You were like my brother as a kid. You start a fight, then when someone like me holds you accountable, you cry like a baby to anyone who will listen! You know you deserved that punch to your grape.      If you went to the cops about your supposed beatdown and they wouldn't file on your old man, then why don't you just chalk it up to getting what you deserved. Your dad's pop to your melon was probably the only thing that has kept you out of jail, you idiot! Seriously, you should change your name to Alexandra, and change your gender; get it over with already. Are you a little girl?? Boo Hoo. If you're not a girl, then try manning up.      Big deal, you got held accountable for being a little jerk. Your dad sounds like a guy who at one point wanted to teach his son that acting like an idiot gets you popped in the face, which sounds like what you still need. Always being the victim is more your style though, huh?      I'll bet you voted for Obama too! Why don't you go bang your drum at some northern California refer convention with all your other pot smoking friends, liberal! They'll listen to your "spare the rod" ideas.      Are you French? Your name sure implies it! Remember what the United States had to do for the French women during World War 2 don't you? The French cried out for help just like you! What a woman you are. Can you be a man, EVER!

     Peace out woman!

malasangre
malasangre

so many whack cults from that time including this one. The Process freaks, Manson, Scientology gettin fired up., Solar Temple, Moses David, Jim Jones. i was 15 and on my own and could see thru them all, guess some cant

Chassher
Chassher

You obviously don't know Pastor Chuch (not Chuckie) Why are you so mad at him? We are all imperfect beings including you, as Jesus said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" be cautious when you throw rocks.

Scovellfamily
Scovellfamily

Chuck Smith, the leader of a mind numbed robot church.....any one who claims that for those of us who do not believe in the pre trib rapture of the church, "our buildings will be here for you to use when we are gone" is obnoxious and unbiblical. There is nowhere in scripture that says if you believe that crap you are not saved. We are saved by GRACE, not by following Chuckie Smith, "lest no man should boast" Obviously Chuck forgot that part.....scripture is also pretty clear about anyone who harms a child....I guess he forgets to read that part of scripture too. Anyone who follows this guy (and his minions) is blind.

johncalvinist
johncalvinist

Anybody who expects to see an perfect Church in this world will have to start by finding a perfect believer. Yes in some ways Calvary Chapel is aberant and so is every other denomination in the world. I wouldn't want to be Chuck Smith for ten seconds or John MacArthur for that matter. Consider the "stricter judgment" aspect of being a teaching elder.In every age of the church TRUTH has been evauluated weighed and studied with a good intent and also missguided intent. Consider Pauls letters not to mention the letters to the seven churches of Asia. I just keep praying for reformational monergism and a more biblical church government model to be granted to that non denominational denomination I both love and hate Calvary. I love them because they love God more to the point He loves them, and I hate their synergistic leaven. But, if they just keep teaching the Bible they will continue to develop monergist by the score and some day drop their blatantly un-scriptual "moses model"... Remember the judgment will be for faithfulness not perfection. I say this having experienced spiritual abuse and neglect from almost every Calvary "pastor" I've ever met for more than 40 years.

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

The Calvary Chapel cookie-cutter system has as its foundation,not the Biblical Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, but . . . Rock Music.  Yes! Yes! Yes!  This is the foundation, and continues to bethe basis, the glue if you will, of the Calvary Chapel movement -- notdissimilar to Robert Schuller, Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, and the EmergentChurch movements – which seek to draw in large followings by presenting aseeker-sensitive worldly message that people are comforting with.  You really don’t hear true Bible-convicting PREACHINGat Calvary Chapels, but rather “teaching”, as if it were a classroom.  And even at that, the classroom will give thehearer a false message with false doctrine. 

When was the last time a Calvary Chapel “pastor” warned againstthe false prophet Billy Graham??  I heardChuck himself on his radio program in 2007 chew down a caller who tried to warnthat Billy Graham teaches multiple ways to Heaven.  Chuck said that he knew Billy Graham himselfand that it was not true.  He refuses tohear counsel from a concerned brother. You see, that is the M.O. of Calvary Chapel “pastors” – they are the “teachers”,but are unteachable!  Thus, you won’thear Calvary Chapel pastors warning against the dangers of Rock Music either,whether wicked Secular or wicked CCM. Because their movement is built upon Rock Music.  This is the tool they use to draw in themasses and to keep the masses. 

There are many things that Calvary Chapel “pastors” will nottell you, because if they REALLY PREACHED THE TRUTH, it would probably clearout 90 per cent or more of the attendees. 

By the way, does anyone know which chapter of Chuck Smith’sbook “Calvary Distinctives” is by far the longest chapter – fully twice as longas any other chapter?  That chapter is indicativeof the false system of theology that the Calvary Chapel deception rests upon.  

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

Chuck Smith is not a true shepherd.  He has appeared on Paul and Jan's Praise the Lord program numerous times, thus validating their deception instead of warning against it.  He also stood on a stage before thousands endorsing Rick Warren as his "good friend". When a caller to his Pastor's Perspective radio program questioned him on this duplicity, he brushed it off (careful not to mention Rick Warren by name) stating that Warren simply had a different emphasis than Chuck himself did. This happened in August 2009. Rick Warren is a false New Age deceiver and if Chuck Smith were a true shepherd he would warn by name against false teachers like Rick Rick Warren instead of endorsing him. Earlier this year (2011) Chuck Smith told a female caller to his radio program that an abortion would be alright.  There are so many reasons to come out of the Calvary Chapel system.  But few have discernment anymore!

mijadedios
mijadedios

I agree, "Chuckie" is not a good name for him, I think 'papasmurf' is more fitting since he's one of many smurfs, he's at the top whether he wants to acknowledge that to the media or not, anyone who's ever attended CC knows PapaSmurf is the top of the pyramid. Why do you people act as if he's above reproach? This is exactly why CC has the problems they do. The instituted cult system propagates abuse because it's DESIGNED purposefully to lead to no accountability. Smurf Sr. knows this and it was a brilliant design. Kind of like the FED. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's been "turned" as if he knew nothing about Lonnie Frisbee when he hired him to turn his failing church into a seeker sensitive post-modern hippie converting mega-church. SmurfSr knew Lonnie's purpose and they were driven from the beginning into what has become one of the most successful cults of the post modern era. Brian McLaren could only dream of the same success. I'm sure I offended some Calvarites out there, but if you're that offended that someone could challenge your worship of a "MAN" than there's some deep soul searching that needs to be done, idolatry is a nasty thing.

Joe
Joe

Come on Gustavo, now you sound like the people you dis-like.....calling CC a Cult???  You should try and experience the church before you start throwing stones.  I don't know Chuck or Alex, but Alex sounds like a cry-baby who got spanked as a kid, and thinks something is wrong with that.  Nobody would listen to this guy or his brother.  Simply because he got spanked as a kid. His mother, the church, the cops.....as much as child abuse is put in the fore-front someone would have made it an issue.  If Catholic Preists are going to jail, why not someone at CC? You guys are giving "the boy that cried Lobo" to much print time. 

BobbyBostonBeans
BobbyBostonBeans

i also think unfortunately that smith is guilty of doubletalk at best with his overemphasis on human free will, which as we should know is not free, but dead, and needs to be enlivened by an outside agent, the word of God which is life.  Therefore we are confident as our eyes are opened to the things of God by the spirit, and word, whch is life. We are the sealed and guaranteed salvation as bible declares in 5 places in bible romans 4 16, 2 cor 1 22, 2 cor 5 5ephesians 1 14, hebrews 7 22

Cd3krivca
Cd3krivca

everyone keeps refering to Calvary Chapel as an authentic congregation of Christ. It's not true, Calvary Chapel is under the authority of Rome. A false congregation is on that pretends to be geniuen and is false, a fake. So please stop referring to Calvary Chapel as a true Church. Even Corinth had issues because of flakes in the congregation, but the leaders proved true because of correction and repentance with godly sorrow. Calvary Chapel does not do that, they only cover up to play the hypocrite like cretans and jews.

Alex
Alex

Stephen, like I told you on facebook, the stuff I'm saying is true (the stuff I've been through and personally witnessed and my accounts of meetings and dealings with Chuck and CC etc). I have phone records that prove Chuck lied from the CCCM pulpit (and the audio of Chuck's public statement) when he said he reached out to me, I called him and had to convince him to have a meeting, etc. The other stuff has been reported to me by good sources, former CCCM employs, former CC pastors, and many others close to the situations. When Chuck Smith said publicly from the CCCM Pulpit that my blog is "All Lies!"...that is a lie. There is much on there that is documented and irrefutable and I don't believe for a second that all of my sources are lying or misinformed, especially when there are "2 or 3 Witnesses" saying the same thing. Chuck just wants to poison the well and stone wall and hope it goes away. He's not the man I hoped he was.

libertyyellow29
libertyyellow29

I am also a follower of Jesus Christ I also have a question about Chuck I heard him on the radio about this President election and his siding with the Morman Romney me as a believe could never vote or agree with such a person nor do I trust with such statements.The proof of the oppression of humans and the abuse of children sicken me as well if Christ was here well he is in me. Rebuke the thought . Jesus sees all :))

jeehaepaik
jeehaepaik

ummmm..... you need to calm down and stop listening to the show if you hate him that much. i don't think pastor chuck cares  that much about your comments and the people who like to listen to his program aren't going to stop listening to him because you hate him.... so go away angry bird.. nobody cares what you think

katerina
katerina

@Danielmorgan36 I pray that God heals you and forgives you Danielmorgan36.

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

This just might be the stupidest comment ever left on this blog—and given we're rife with racists and pedophile apologists, that's saying something...

Alex
Alex

Hilarious. I'm only commenting b/c it's so over-the-top hysterical. Are you intentionally being that stupid for satire? I can't imagine there is someone "sincerely" that stupid, so you must be playing a gag or something LOL.

John Knowles
John Knowles

I do know Chuck, and the last time I spoke to him was at his house. He's a man who gets up and calls on the Lord every day of his life. Santification is both difinitive and progressive, Chuck at eighty something is still under construction like the rest of us. I'm not mad at him. I'm deeply dissapointed that he hates the doctrines of grace. I'm also convinced that the Moses model of church government is unscriptural. I was ordained by Chuck. Oden Fong's and Dan Oneil's signature were also on my "ordination" papers. I'd never even met Dan beyond doing some work on his trailers in 1979. I'd never spent more than 10 minutes with Oden in my life. If calvary just keeps teaching the bible they will keep popping out calvinistic monergist by the score as they are now doing. I've been praying for that for years and will continue to do so.

93515
93515

Written like someone who simply hates, but does not 'know.' I'm guessing you once went to a Calvary Chapel, told the Pastor how you'd like him to change the church to suit you, and were invited to exercise your democracy and leave an establishment you didn't like, because it wasn't going to change for you...

Like all the complainers, you rush to join a cause with someone like Alex thinking he's fighting for your sense of true Biblical orthodoxy and righteousness...

Newsflash... one of the three siblings is gay and has been accused of sodomising a fourth sibling, and Alex has failed to live up to Christian obligations and disassociate himself from homosexuals... he chooses to interpret the Bible differently and 'tone down' his criticism of such behaviour. I also doubt that you'll find any harmony in Alex's forum camp on the subject of damning Rick Warren, condemning ecumenism or universalism, contemplative and mystisism, Church growth, Rock Music, pacifism and usury, capitalising on the misfortune of the poor... in that forum you'll find nothing but a group of mis-matched haters who are united on one thing only... that they hate Calvary Chapel and that they call their hatred 'Christian.' Wipe Calvary Chapel out, and all the innocent people who will be damaged when you do, and then you'll find a bunch of people in that forum with a very different set of ideas on what Christianity really is, and their 'unity' will go out the window.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend... until they become my enemy.

All of them have a history of slander.gossip,bearing false witness and judgementalisim. Some even have attempted blackmail in the name of righteousness. their self-righteousness.

Timothy Guy
Timothy Guy

Joe, you are a loser. im sorry its that simple.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

Joe's definition of "Spanking": Hit in the face, locked in small closet, bruises, blood on lower back, backs of legs, buttocks, kicked, grabbed violently, shoved into walls, beat over the entire body with a tree branch, etc etc etc.

State of California's Definition: Felony Child Abuse.

Paul Grenier, Bob Grenier's blood son, alleges Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia molested him as well as the physical child abuse.

Chuck Smith said from the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa pulpit (click the link in the article above and hear it for yourself) that we were "abused" growing up.

24 year Calvary Chapel Board Member comes forward and admits that Bob Grenier confessed to the Board he punched my brother in the face, but that it was an isolated incident of abuse, never before, etc (lie). The Calvary Chapel Board covered up the abuse and didn't report it to authorities or there would have been an arrest.

Much abuse before and after. Bob Grenier corroborates his abuse, so do my other brothers. My Mom was abused several times also, as witnessed and reported by my brothers, similar to Raul Ries abusing Sharon Ries (Sharon tells the story in her book from 1989 about Raul Ries's abusiveness and violence in their home). Not uncommon, I'm finding, in some Calvary Chapel Circles. Bob Grenier runs in the same Circle as Raul Ries.

Birds of a Feather as they say...

lilde21
lilde21

@BobbyBostonBeans you obviously don't know what you are are talking about.  If knew about Calvary Chapel, you would know people are encouraged to read their Bibles every day.  People who are going to church know what the Pastor is teaching on and can read ahead IF THEY WANT TO.  Chuck isn't their Dad and has no right to tell people what to do. Believe me, Chuck knows revival.  He depends on God for that, not on himself.

Hjalmar
Hjalmar

93515: You have failed to address what I wrote but instead simply invented suggestions about me, my past, and my motives.  Attacking me, instead of addressing what I wrote is a diversion used to avoid addressing the VERY REAL truths I stated above.  I did not "damn" Rick Warren, I simply stated that he is a false teacher, and if Chuck Smith were a true shepherd, he would warn people about Warren, not join hands with him.  It is not slander, gossip, bearing false witness, or judgmental in anything I said. Chuck Smith has done and said those things publicly.  Calvary Chapelism is worldly, thus resulting in the great numbers that attend -- not unlike Hybels, Warren, Schuller, and the rest of the "give 'em what they want" hirelings.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

Do you guys even read the bible? I mean besides the End Times stuff. I know your read "through" it, but c'mon. Actually let the words sink in and have a clue. You're a disgrace.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

I love my homosexual brother. He's a sinner like I am and his molestation stumbled him terribly. God's gonna deal with you guys in CC. You're hearts are wicked. You judge the World and you don't Judge your own.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? --- That pesky bible again that Calvary Chapel says "we simply teach the bible simply". You've got David Rosales of CC Chino Valley going around bashing homosexuals in the media while he covers up Felony Child Abuse and molestation in his own Church (as a CC Affiliated Pastor and Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member).

93515
93515

Interesting feature of Alex's crusade is his constant repetition of Civil Law to define offenses that he has been unable to prove or prosecute in the Civil Arena (because no one believes him or - in his version - have all been bought or blackmailed by Bob Grenier)... and his repeated insisting that the Church should prosecute Civil Law even when the alleged victim can't make his case under Civil Law. Basically Alex wants a fellowship of churches to hear allegations which could be criminal slander, and hearing nothing else at all, to ruin a man's reputation along with a whole load of people who are guilty of only two things... knowing someone that Alex now lives to hate, and that when they were given two sides of a story to listen to, they chose not to believe Alex.

I read his Calvary-Chapel hating and defaming website this week (he seems to be unconcerned that his non-specific bashing of 'Calvary Chapel' in general defames and maligns thousands of pastors who have done nothing wrong at all). He unethically posted a private letter of testimony from someone who specifically requested anonymity and non-disclosure, but in that letter the same person revealed that while Grenier had admitted that he had hit one of his kids, Grenier also had a history of telling his church board that he was having very serious trouble caused by three of the children in his care, which was evidently not being caused by the fourth child... Alex did not bother to gather the testimony of the 'witnesses' to the 'abuse' or the 'confessions' to balance the evidence with testimony of just how bad these three kids actually were, and what they were like...

All we're left with is the fact that a mother and a brother who are also being slandered by the three siblings have written off their relationship, and stand firmly by the alleged abuser, their husband, their father... According to Alex this is 'classic' of blackmail, intimidation, violent coercion, mass fraud, conspiracy to silence the truth, etc. Unfortunately it is also classic of people who have to distance themselves from angry lunatics spouting conspiracy theories.

It is strange that such a group of people want churches held legally accountable for failing to act like judges and juries in cases that cannot be legally proven and prosecuted. It's like trying to sue Bob Iger for the fact that the owner of a store that has authorisation to sell Disney branded goods might have beaten one of his kids according to the testimony of the kid which the police themselves have already dismissed.

Douglas Craven
Douglas Craven

Alex, I know Raul and grew up with his sons. Yes, Raul admits all that happen prior to becoming a Christian. The abuse stopped and Raul went on to become a Christian and put his abuse behind him. Read the book, I can tell you that Raul and Chuck both would never tolerate a Pastor that truly did what you are claiming. I have heard Chuck on many occasions speak out against abuse from the pulpit so quit dragging people through the mud.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

"I know Chuck never would cover up anything for business reason or "Money".

I can't agree with this statement. Ask Chuck about the $13 million (or more) of church money that has supposedly (in one form or another) gone to family to set them up when he dies. Ask Chuck about the CSN Radio scandal, ask him about lying when he says he "has no control" and "has no responsibility" and "has never exercised control" and "never exercised responsibility" when it comes to other CC's and CC Pastors, etc.

John Knowles
John Knowles

If God's taught me anything, it's simply this. Forgive, forgive forgive. I don't doubt Chuck's faith or sincerity for a minute. That was alot of years ago. I just keep praying that the synergistic soteriology they teach will be uprooted. I love my brother Chuck and he's an old man. The last thing on earth I want to do is hurt him or his ministry. Love if the command none of us dare ignore. I know many people have suffered from various forms of spiritual abuse both from calvary pastors and even back as far as the house ministries.I know Chuck never would cover up anything for business reason or "Money". Love doesn't "keep an accounting record" of sin. If others read this I can only say forgive forgive forgive. Forgive as God for Christ sake has forgiven you. I don't expect to even see Chuck in heaven. He'll so far up front and I'll be so in back I doubt I'll get a glimpse of him. LOVE ONE ANOTHER, LOVE ONE ANOTHER and oh yea, LOVE ONE ANOTHER. 

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

johnc, sorry to hear this. Chuck Smith should've have reported your abuse to authorities, but from what I've learned of the man, he had business reasons for not reporting and thought he could sweep you under the rug.

He'll report now, because the law makes him and he's being held accountable in court with the Tim Kosnoff lawsuit (the 4 boys who got molested in Calvary Chapel).

annatka
annatka

I'm so sorry this happened to you!  I, too, was abused by church leaders (but from another church).  I hope that you, like me, have found that God is nothing like those leaders that prey on young people, but that He is ANGRY with that abuse, and that He is pleased with His children that come to Him.  He offers love, healing and hope.

johncalvinist
johncalvinist

I am 56 year old man. In 1973 I'd been a believer for about one year. I got involved with Shekinah Fellowship of Long Beach Ca. Most of the kids there were from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. Greg Laurie's sister and also Chuck Girrard's sister were so called "word of knowledge" ministers in the so called "healing services". Little did I know of the long relationship Baker and his mother had with Chuck Smith. Reports now are that he taught a bible study in their home before Calvary Chapel ever started.. Brant and I developed a quick friendship although I didn't know he was a homosexual who liked young boys like me. When he attempted to make me have sex with him I ran yelling from his apt with him on my heals yelling come back.He said, I saw an angel with a drawn sword and if anything had happened he would of killed us. I thought, killed you maybe. I was devestated and fell into a deep depression. At one service I thought if this thing  was of God why do I feel so totally lousy. Next I experienced the most terrifying thought I've ever had. I feared I'd commited the unpardonable sin by doubting the validity of Shekinah and Brant. I was terror struck for weeks day and night. I wrote a letter to Chuck Smith and hand delivered it to him after a bible study. His advice was at best incompetent and possibly against the law as I was a minor and Brant was about 28. When I told him of my terror of being lost he just kind of laughed it off and said that's just the devil, don't worry about it. FOR THE LAST FOURTY YEARS I'VE SUFFERED FROM ALMOST EVERY SYMPTOM OF  P.T.S.D. It's kinda funny when you hear Chuck Smith call Spurgeon, Lloyd Jones, Matthew Henry, and all the reformers (to a man) "almost satanic" When the local paper exposed Skip whatshisface for ripping off Calvary Albuquerque for about $500,000 were they touching God's anointed? I'm convinced of only this. That day many who are first will be last. I'VE WATCHED PEOPLE GET STABBED AND BEATEN IN THE HEAD WITH A PIPE AND SHOT TO DEATH BUT FOR IT'S DESTRUCTIVE POWER THATS NOTHING COMPARED WITH SPIRITUAL ABUSE.

BobbyBostonBeans
BobbyBostonBeans

@Alex Grenier. more pastors need to read the bible and tell church ahead of time what sermon verse will be subject so they can study ahead of time and not just lean on pastors interpretation, no doubt they will learn from pastor as well, but student needs to read for himself...and be dependent on God and not man...this would cause revival in my opinion as more and more people would be growing in the word!...as it is the sermon is not dwelled on like it should be each week multiplied by a million churches and we have a problem

Timothy Guy
Timothy Guy

No Alex, Calvary Chapel is only interested in the endless study of revelation and all the typologies Chuck Smith dreamed up to make twisting scripture that much easier.

Oh yeah and also breaking well known long established greek words down letter by letter in order to give them a completely new meaning to fit their view of things. You know.. like "apostasia" meaning "falling away from the planet"....

BobbyBostonBeans
BobbyBostonBeans

@Alex Grenier Lonnie Frisbee really popularized CC ...but more pastors need to read the bible and tell church ahead of time what sermon verse will be subject so they can study ahead of time and not just lean on pastors interpretation, no doubt they will learn from pastor as well, but student needs to read for himself...and be dependent on God and not man...this would cause revival in my opinion as more and more people would be growing in the word!...as it is the sermon is not dwelled on like it should be each week multiplied by a million churches and we have a problem

Asaph7
Asaph7

Everybody (well not everbody), wants to protect God's "Anointed", but what is Jesus warn about? Matthew 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Repent, you "Anointed" or otherwise, Jesus will defend His children and deal with you!People have been hurt and some in the church are unloving enough to defend the powerful and not the defensless! Where's the love in this?

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

93515 said, "but in that letter the same person revealed that while Grenier had admitted that he had hit one of his kids, Grenier also had a history of telling his church board that he was having very serious trouble caused by three of the children in his care, which was evidently not being caused by the fourth child" Yes. The "they deserved the Felony Child Abuse" argument and the "Paul deserved getting molested, or asked for it? Or something like that?" argument. Very good. Thanks for showing how screwed up and dangerous CC's thinking is. For the record, I was a good kid, did my best to avoid the abuse, it didn't matter. Paul was a good kid, too. Geoff was within the lines of normal, but didn't take to the domination and beatings and hatefulness and abuse well and he resisted at times. He also acted out at times in school and elsewhere. A perfectly normal response when you are being consistently abused by an adult Pastor. Robert, the 4th brother, was admitted into Cypress Mental Health facility for 'hearing voices' and saying he was thinking about committing suicide. This is fact and verifiable and part of the tragic Bob Grenier and Calvary Chapel story. The version of the situation you've gotten from Bob Grenier is false. Bob is a liar. Read the Testimony from the 24 year CCV Board member. I have a literal PILE of other first-person testimonies as well. Calvary Chapel is a dangerous place for children. Chuck Smith's "Touch not God's Anointed" Doctrine is cult-like and leads to abuse and cover ups.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

1 Corinthians 6:4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 1 Corinthians 6:5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 1 Corinthians 6:1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? --- Hey, help me out here, isn't Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith's Motto: "We simply teach the bible simply" or something like that?

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

Wrong again. Don't know where you came up with that notion. Propaganda. Others have speculated that, though. There is a Contract (Affiliation Agreement) between Chuck Smith's CCCM and CCOF and the CC Senior Pastors.

Bob confessed to Felony Child Abuse, Calvary Chapel didn't report, covered it up and more abuse and molestation happened after that. You can spin all you want. Interesting "authorisation"...why did you spell that with an "s"? Is this CC Pastor Steve from Britain?

Alex888
Alex888

el burrito sabe mas que tu, thats all I've got LOL.

Alexmora777
Alexmora777

creo que finalmente nacio el anticristo tratando de destruir LA IGLECIA DE DIOS .... ALEX666GRENIER.

Timothy Guy
Timothy Guy

Douglas Chuck defended Mike Kessler and actually acted AGAISNT more than one woman who told of his sexual misconduct for YEARS before finally taking action and then it was only to save his precious CSN. You, like the rest of the zealots are blind and clueless.

Alex Grenier
Alex Grenier

Douglas, you must not know them that well then.

Change
Change

It is prett sad how you defend men you watch but don't know. They have you beleiving exactly what they want you to believe. Good job, keep giving that cash over and drinking that koolaid.

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