Chuck Smith Meets with Calvary Chapel Abuse Survivor, Calls His Blog "A Bunch of Lies"

Thumbnail image for chucksmith.jpg
Smith: For how long will he smile?
You'll remember last year we brought ustedes the story of Alex Grenier, whose stepfather is the pastor at Calvary Chapel Visalia and whom Grenier says physically abused him repeatedly as a child. Since then, Grenier has become a hero to the many, many people burned by Calvary Chapel over the years through his blog, Calvary Chapel Abuse, where Grenier does the work reporters don't want to do in exposing the seamier side of Calvary Chapel and its head, Chuck Smith.

Grenier's blog is so explosive that Smith took the extraordinary measure of arranging a meeting with him earlier this month, one to which Grenier was asked to keep quiet for two weeks until they figured out what to do with him. Those two weeks are up, and boy, does Grenier have a story to tell!

Everyone should read Calvary Chapel Abuse, so I'll direct everyone to Grenier's entertaining, passionate recounting of the meeting. Essentially, Grenier wants his stepfather removed from his position, and for Calvary Chapel to adopt guidelines to ensure child abuse doesn't happen at the mega-movement. Smith generally agreed to the latter, but claimed he had no authority over the former, which everyone knows is a crock of lies.

What's most interesting, however, is Grenier's account that Smith and his lawyer called his blog "a bunch of lies," a "refuse collector" and that Grenier is ""tearing down a work of the Lord" by allowing his blog to be a harbor for those burned by Smith. REAL sympathetic there, Chuckie! Calvary Chapel Pacific Hills (in Aliso Viejo) pastor Dave Rolph sat in on the meeting and disputed Grenier's version: it wasn't Smith who lambasted Grenier, Rolph, claims, it was his attorney. To which Grenier laughed.

Godspeed, Alex, and keep up the good fight...

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61 comments
urfriend
urfriend

Your accounts would be more credible if you didn't share them with the immature sarcasm of a teenager, i.e., "Chuckie", sounds infantile. If you are in fact telling the truth you should be more sober about it, since you are accusing someone who is looked upon as a leader by many, not to mention believed to be appointed by God, you out to be more sober minded when doing so. If what you say is in fact true, the truth will stand without your childish remarks. Your desire, if you are a believer, should be to bring to light and restore the guilty party knowing that you too can fall into temptation. Of course, I am assuming you are a believer.

ageofknowledge
ageofknowledge

Making a serious accusation is easy. Anyone can do it to anyone... even to people who are completely innocent. Proving that it's true is a whole other matter.

Kirby Reece
Kirby Reece

I have an overall question for everyone. Are your motives lead by the Holy spirit or by what you personally feel and believe? For the TRUE believers in Christ Jesus, what does the scriptures say about handling matters as such? As for the nonbelievers I have really nothing to say at this point. Witnessing is something that comes by living for Christ as being reborn in his name and truly living a transformed life through transformation by the Holy spirit. I would encourage everyone to do extensive research on everything you feel you know about and to test the credibility on what you go by. For everything the bible is very clear about I will stand by this one thing and will let God work out everything else. Jesus said before he was taking as a last commandment to us was to "Love one another as I have loved you". God bless.

Alex
Alex

"Christians" out there, we need to come clean and admit we're sinners. I still sin, how about you? The "World" (I'm going to speak in Christianeze for awhile here, bear with me non-Christian friends) can't see Jesus in us very often. What they do see is a bunch of hypocrites who try to act like after they've been "Saved" or "Born Again" that magically we become Jesus and we're perfect and sinless from then on. Then we go around pointing out the World's sin and hyper-focusing on certain sins over others, without removing the Logs out of our own eyes. This doesn't facilitate "listening" to the Gospel message...it facilitates non-Christians pointing out what hypocrites we all are as we sin as much as everyone else (though we shouldn't). We just reframe our sin better and hide it better or it changes from say drug use or fornication to something else, like scheming and lying and protecting bad pastors and the Church's image, etc etc. Go re-read that Bible you've read a zillion times. Jesus loves sinners, He was the most Gracious to sinners (Woman at the Well a serial adulterer, Mary Magdalene a prostitute (though some scholars dispute that), Zacchaeus the tax collector, the adulteress who the Pharisees set up to trap Jesus, heck Jesus's own Disciples...a reviled Tax Collector, some blue-collar salty and crude fishermen, etc. Interesting, though, no Lawyers...even Jesus has Standards! (Just kidding Kelly, Sheck, Eric :-) Now, Jesus wasn't all Ghandi all the time. He kicked ass and took names, too. He laid into the Pharisees (the hypocritical Religious and Political leaders of His day) read Matthew 23: Jesus to them, "You SNAKES!" You HYPOCRITES! You BROOD OF VIPERS!" etc. Jesus also took a form of a whip and beat the crap out of the Money Changers in His Father's Temple who were making money off of God. (Jesus, IMO, would be beating the crap out of guys like Benny Hinn and PTL today). We all have sinned, we all sin. My sin isn't better or worse than anyone else's and I have sinned and sin a lot. God wants all to be reconciled to Him. Jesus died for a reason and despited the extreme Skepticism of Atheism and Secular Humanism (I read Dawkins, Hawking, Hitchens, Sam Harris etc all the time) Jesus also rose from the dead. Doesn't make sense. It was a literal miracle. I can't "prove" it, but I know in my spirit my soul that "it" happened. Strict Empiricists reject the spiritual side of mankind, yet we all feel it, we all feel that tug, that sense that there is something more than what we see, taste, touch etc. What I've done that has helped me find peace: I pray to God and I ask Him for mercy on me a sinner and I ask Him to give me belief in His Son Jesus Christ as Messiah. I've experienced a saved marriage and I've been able to reverse the cycle of child abuse in my home, despite much baggage and hurt. I'm far from perfect, I can be a jerk, I can use language I probably shouldn't, I have to fight against lust, etc etc. but I keep asking God for help and keep begging Him for mercy...and I've received help, whether it's real or imagined. I have Faith that it's real, though my Atheist friends strongly disagree :-)

OC Weekly=Hate
OC Weekly=Hate

 The OC Weekly is the most liberal biased christian hating publication in Southern California. The infantile journalists have an agenda,

and that is why they/he uses the term racist and homo hater towards any one that believes in God, or that has any moral standard.

In countless publications, I've read from these cultist, that they are vocally pro illegal immigration and any one that is not, is an anti Mexican racist.

You see- they are so ignorant and self absorbed they think only Mexican illegal immigrants are the issue at hand. They could give a rats-a$$

about any non-Mexican race that is desperate to cross the border for a better life. They also have no sympathy or respect for the individuals that

legally wait in line for decades to gain citizenship. We would see pigs fly before they'd ever publish the Mexican immigration law.

He and the rest of the OC Weekly brainwashed, by way of liberal indoctrinating UCLA/USC professors, are one sided ignorant bafoons.

That being said, I do sympathize with this individual who I absolutely believe was abused. He is doing the right thing and needs

not any help from a third grade level columnist. I as well, as the rest of us do not know the whole story of what Chuck can or cannot

do about this horrible man that is willing to destroy an image of a great church and organization. The one and only main thing we

should take from all of this is that men, no matter how good, will eventually fail. There is no one individual, living or dead, that has not

sinned on a daily basis- it is an impossibility since the day of Adam.

For a man like Chuck Smith, who has done a life time of service to the best of his ability, deserves respect and faith to rectify this.

"But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they

continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground."

Here you go for everything Pro-Mexican and Pro anti-Christian: http://www.theliberaloc.com/20...

Anonymous
Anonymous

There is a lot of good that came out of the Calvary Chapel Movement. I say that being a critic of Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith. It is sad that, in my opinion, Pastor Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia is willfully destroying the credibility of Calvary Chapel and dragging Chuck Smith through the mud at the end of his life. It is disgraceful.

Solomon Rodriguez
Solomon Rodriguez

Chuck Smith is a wolf in sheeps clothing but most of his supporters will still feel that he can do no wrong.  This guy is nothing more than a CEO of a very profitable Non profit Organization.

Alex
Alex

Thanks Gustavo!

VatoLoco
VatoLoco

Gustavo your full of shit again, if you know anything about how a church works it has to be approved by the board so no Chuck can't just say hey change this and voila.

Pauli
Pauli

      Yes, this is the truth and I agree with my sister in the Lord.For you who do not believe in Jesus Christ, the ways of God may appear to be foolish.For you believers, please pray for all involved, this is what we are called to do. As believers in Christ there is only one church and we are all sisters and brothers in Christ. I have complete trust in our Father in Heaven , He WILL defend His children , He WILL defend the abused, He WILL discipline us when necessary and He WILL forgive us when we repent. What we THINK is of no value, what GOD thinks is what matters.My heart bleeds for the abused, and I cry out to God for you. My heart bleeds for the lost, and I cry out to God for you. Jesus Christ died for all of our sins, and we are all sinners.      I am a TRUE believer and what I do KNOW is that the Lord commands us to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.  If this brother's allegations are true, his pain is deep, he needs comfort and it does need to be dealt with. I will be praying for you.One thing I do KNOW is that most of us here are not witnesses to this and we do not have all of the facts.     Christians are attacked and tempted every minute of every day and it is by the power of the Holy Spirit and the blood of Jesus Christ that we have any wisdom or guidance, love or peace, patience or kindness, faithfulness or gentleness, or self control. We need to pray, this is what we are called to do, not try either side in the court of public opinion.      My heart bleeds for the abused, and I cry out to God for them. My heart bleeds for the lost, and I cry out to God for them. Jesus Christ died for all of our sins, and we are all sinners. There is no perfect church, and there is no perfect person except Jesus Christ who died for us all. Brothers and sisters, pray without ceasing and may the Lord God forgive us and lead us all to repentance and to the peace of God which surpasses all understanding.

Jenny
Jenny

I happened upon this story, I dont know you or your father, but you are right, we are all sinners... Including your father. (or step father?). Since you are a believer, I think its very important you forgive your dad, and let God deal with him. He will! I had an abusive dad myself, he was in a church, I grew up, forgave him, prayed for him and today he is 100% different man, very loving and I adore and respect my dad so much. God worked it all out for the good! Sounds like a bit of a mess this is becoming, leave it in your Heavenly Father's hands instead of trying to force things, God loves His children dearly! =)

Wendy
Wendy

Alex, you have spoken so eloquently. It's true that Christians seem to be more concerned with the sins of the "world" than their own sins, and really, who wants to listen to someone proclaim the love of Jesus out of one side of their mouth and spew hatred out of the other?I'm a Christian and I'm a sinner, no better or worse than anyone else. I sometimes look like the farthest thing from a Christian, and that's something I have to work on. The big difference between sinners who know they are sinners and sinners who project false piety (like Bob Grenier and his kind) is repentance and reconciliation. Bob Grenier hides behind his position puts on the facade of a "godly man" all the while hurting and abusing those who've trusted him.I think I'll stick to hanging out with the sinners like me.

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

Us, Christian-hating? No, we hate morons. Dave Gibbons of Newsong? Good guy. The Calvary Chapel cult? Bad people. You? PENDEJO!

Alex
Alex

Actually, I'm a "born again" Christian and Gustavo has never called me a racist or a homophobe, etc. In fact, he and I have had several exchanges and interact quite fine. Gustavo is making a valid Social Commentary on Evangelicalism in General and Calvary Chapel specifically. Hey, we give him plenty of reasons to point out our flaws. Instead of whining and putting up the Stone Wall, why don't you try engaging him in a meaningful discussion about "why" he has come to those opinions? The Jesus Christ I love and serve was a friend of sinners (of which I am one, I'm not better, no worse than anyone, I just beg God for mercy on me a sinner, and I have sinned and sin in my life like everyone else). Now, you can certainly hole up behind your Fundamentalist Christian Fortress and exchange arrows with the "heathen" etc or you can be real human being and follow the example of Jesus and drop the False Piety stuff. I've been a PK my entire life. I've seen behind the Curtain many times. We're just as big of sinners as anyone, but somehow we start thinking our you-know-what doesn't stink anymore. My encouragement to you is this: Be the Publican and not the Pharisee and pray for Gustavo and try to interact with him in a way that honors the name of Jesus you proclaim. Save the hard core rhetoric for the Pharisees (the Hypocritical Religious Leaders) and save your beatings for the Money Changers. Be gracious to those who don't know our Savior yet. That's the example of Jesus in Scripture.

Rolling Stone
Rolling Stone

So if the devil speaks the truth he is a liar???

DISCUSTED
DISCUSTED

Thank You Anonymous! Some one that's NOT cracking on the "Church" I Slandering, cussing ,etc. No matter what your problem is, race, belief,etc.... this language is Inoperative, to Boot!!One Bad Apple doesn't ruin the Whole bunch! Calvary started in a tent & allowed ANYONE to come, barefoot, sit lay & listen & all (hippy movement times)! "Come as You Are, Here The Lords Call!" This means we don't HATE gays, we Just hope they see the "Truth & Light", We pray for them, not HATE ON ANYONE! We Love our Neighbors & Enemy's, With True Agape Love~I will never feel Chuck Smith is a money hungry minister (or whatever you want to call him?)! Hes a God Fearing & Loving sole, that brought & Helped bring, MILLIONS of people to find & come to our Lord, Jesus Christ!This Whole back & forth stuff with Believer & None believers, is Just Appalling & disgraceful, indeed!

Greyhavensurfer
Greyhavensurfer

Bob Grenier is not dragging Chuck through the mud.  The problem is that Chuck Smith is a shady enabler.  He has the power to do something about Bob Grenier.  In fact, Chuck Smith could, with the stroke of a pen and the dial of a phone, remove Chuck Smith from the Calvary Chapel denomination.  This would let everyone know that Chuck Smith does not stand for Bob's behavior.  However, for some reason he would rather protect his old buddy Bob than stand up to a bully who is verbally and physically abusive.  Bob's other son alleges that he is sexually abusive.  The question is for Chuck: why don't you do something?  Make an investigation, issue a formal statement, something. 

Calvary Chapel is the most dysfunctional brand of Christianity around, and the buck does stop with Chuck Smith.  Each church is run by a pastor who is not accountable to a board of elders or to any other pastor.  This breeds an environment of absolute power, where all manner of evil proliferates.  In other denominations the bad apples get weeded out by careful boards or congregational votes.  In Calvary Chapel, anyone who complains is practically excommunicated by the tyrannical "Senior Pastor."  

At the macro-level, Chuck Smith is in the same position as these mini-dictators: he runs everything and is accountable to no one. 

Nicky
Nicky

Yeah, approved by a hand-picked board of "yes men". And Chuck CAN pull the dove from CCV, as he's done in the past with other CC's for far less.

Where's the Beef?
Where's the Beef?

Gustavo your full of shit again, if you know anything about how a church works...Yeah, it works like the Burger King franchise... Sell Jesus, Market Jesus, incorporate Jesus, get rich and thank Jesus! Then slander and discredit those who eat at McD's

Alex
Alex

Really? I have a copy of a Legal Settlement between Chuck Smith and Mike Kestler that says Chuck "has" gotten a CC Pastor removed as a Calvary Chapel Pastor. It's an interesting read. Exposes a lot of the lies and false impressions (which is lying) that's being propagated. Gustavo will have the document (and another doc that shows CCOF has "investigated" matters and issued rulings in the past...and Chuck Smith is listed as "President" of CCOF in IRS Documents.

Alex
Alex

When Bob is dealt with and removed from a Position of Trust as Pastor which sets people up to be hurt, I probably will. If Bob was a janitor or a truck drive, etc, I would have dealt with it much differently. He's not. He's a high-profile (in Visalia's small pond) representative of Jesus Christ. I'm not stopping until Chuck Smith or someone deals with him (or Bob can come clean and step down and let someone else behind the Pulpit).

Alex
Alex

Nicky, I'd hang with you anytime :-)

kalfornia7
kalfornia7

I wonder what makes you think it's a cult.  Wow!!! amazing ! Have you ever attended a service. I wonder what you have against them.   There is something more to this.  Bad people????? Please give us examples.  We are all bad people and sinners I agree to that.But please don't just throw out these accusations without getting your facts right. Is it because thousands are accepting Christ through the  Calvary Chapel around the world? Maybe the Holy Spirit is convicting you.... dont fight it, accept the Lord  Jesus, youre life will be better than it is right now.

yousuck
yousuck

if your a born again christian, then act like it.  your blog sucks, and you sound like a big baby who needs his butt kicked.  i doubt your dad ever even hit you, your just a big wuss who cant take a lick when he needs it

jos77b
jos77b

@Rolling Stone He is the Father of Lies..What do u think?

Kalfornia7
Kalfornia7

"Dysfunctional brand of Christianity"  All they do is preach the Word , nothing more nothing less, so many are coming to the Lord everyday, be very very careful what you all say about men of God.   If  what you say is true, the Lord will judge them, but if you are making up stuff, the Lord will take care of it,"Vengenance is mine says the Lord"  He will fight for His people.  Do you know how Pastor Chuck has dealt with this , or are you listening to the lies that are being circulated....

Giterdunn
Giterdunn

That's an interesting assumption you make. It sounds almost identical to how our Lord deals with people. It would take much less than 15 minutes for Jesus to remove Chuck Smith, Bob Grenier, you, me or anyone else if he wanted to......but he hasn't. Does that make Jesus a "shady enabled" too?If the Lord chooses not to deal with a shady character which includes any of us on your timetable and in the way you want to see it happen are you prepared to trash his whole life, his ministry for all history, and accuse him of being the most despicable of all God's? No the Lord chooses to deal with us in grace and his method for us to receive justice is to pray and trust in Him. If He were to want to use any one of us in the process it certainly would be through an attitude of grace and mercy of which Alex and most on this gossip rag and his own have none.

VatoLoco
VatoLoco

dude you dont fucking get it, he cannot just do that its run by a board

VatoLoco
VatoLoco

I read your blog, your nuts man...... plain and simple you just have a vendetta thats all grow up man you got beef with the wrong person. I understand the whole molest thing and wanting to protect future victims but you are just dragging someone through the mud and then implying your know what peoples "real" motives are behind their actions.

And a President of a Board cannot just go ahead and make the changes he has to present them to the Board.

You sound like a bitter teeanger in the way you write that blog, no wonder Gustavo loves ya.

I recommend reading up more on how boards function and the roles of Presidents etc within the structure.

They way your acting is outrageous and based upon how you write in that blog, fuck ya I'd bring a lawyer.

False impressions (which is lying)--- what is that? how old are you dude?

macdoodle
macdoodle

Would a different church in that smaller town area help deal with this more effectively ?

Alex
Alex

Nope, don't want money. I want Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel to follow the Scripture they claim to teach "Simply", etc. I could care less about fame as well. I am just exposing the garbage for what it is and many are coming out of the woodwork with all the bad stuff, lies, cover ups, etc and potential criminality and IRS violations etc that are fruit of much sin in the Calvary Chapel Camp.

Alex
Alex

Chuck Smith has directly intervened with the Richard Cimino situation in Calvary Chapel Grass Valley and with regards to the Ralph Wood pornography situation in Calvary Chapel Oceanside...so you are incorrect. 

There will be a detailed article corroborated by inside sources soon on CalvaryChapelAbuse.com.

OC Weekly=Hate
OC Weekly=Hate

I agree with you Marcie5295, I thought he was sincere at first but I think it's obvious now. He only wants money and 2 seconds of fame. Why else would he go to the biggest liberal- christian hating hate monger like Gustovo from the worst 2-bit publication like the OC Weekly. Chuck deserves our trust and respect and has done much to earn it. This guy is not unlike any other bum out to get free money and fame. I wonder what he has ever done with his life and where he works. He doesn't mind exposing others...let him expose him self. 

Marcie5295
Marcie5295

Sounds like petty blackmail to me. You are threatening to ruin a man's reputation if he does not conform to your wishes. Plain and simple.

Had Chuck Smith somehow had been able to remove this pastor after you first approached him about it, your blog would not exist. Heck you might even have had good things to say about him. It's all about you and what you want, isn't it? The man's real character doesn't matter -- you will paint it in whatever light suits you, based on how he responds to your demands.

Wendy
Wendy

LOL...well you do on your blog and FB :-) 

Alex
Alex

I'm a Calvary Chapel Pastor's Kid (PK) and have first-hand witnessed many cult-like things go on. Not good. There is a bit of a Cult of Personality surrounding Chuck Smith and a little Chuck Worship going on in the System. I wouldn't go the whole way and call it a full-blow Cult, but there are many concerns with how Calvary Chapel does its business and with regards to Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel Visalia and some of his CC Senior Pastor buddies..."Cult-like" is a fair criticism. The many individual stories bear this out. It's sad and very wrong and we as Christians should call it out and call sin sin.

Alex
Alex

You're welcome to try, contact me through the blog and we can set up that butt-kicking you're recommending. Good luck tough guy. And, no my Dad never hit, by step-dad did, though, a lot.

Halfdump
Halfdump

All throughout scripture The Lord uses a man as His tool. Maybe Alex is being used by Him.

Ronnie
Ronnie

Really? I mean.....really? You're likening the motives of Chuck Smith to Jesus? Your comment is not only blasphemous, it's completely asinine. Chuck Smith is not God or Jesus, his motives should not be hidden or "mysterious"....as the leader of a huge collection of churches, he should be protecting his parishoners....he doesn't get the benefit of that "well he works in mysterious ways" tripe.

Alex
Alex

Good point.

Doug Gilliland
Doug Gilliland

There are three people on the board - Chuck Smith, Brian Broderson (Chuck's son-in-law) and Roger Wing - a yes man. Not much of a challenge to have Grenier removed. It wouldn't take more than 15 minutes if Chuck wanted it.

Alex
Alex

Chuck started his own denom b/c he doesn't like board and congregational interference with policy decisions. Chuck's "board" is there to serve him, read Chuck's Distinctives.

The "board" is a buffer for Chuck Smith. 

From the "Distinctives": Page 23, paragraph 1: "The board decided and they became a buffer for me."

From the "Distinctives": Page 23: paragraph 2: "I believe that God's model is that the pastor is ruled over by the Lord and recognized by the congregation as God's anointed instrument to lead the church, with the Board guiding and directing."

Chuck's Board is tasked with being the "buffer"...yes. However, on matters of import, as "God's Anointed"...make no mistake, Chucks, as "Anointed Prophet" speaks...and it is made so. Then he has the Board to act as a "buffer" to insulate him.

Read the whole "Distinctives" by Chuck Smith. Some good, some not so much (the Moses Principle or Moses Model is bad juju).

http://biblefacts.org/church/D...

Me
Me

Wow, you are the one who seriously DOES NOT GET IT. 

Nicky
Nicky

The fucktardery is at an all time high with your ignorant and poorly written comments.

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

A homophobe, a racist, and a liar? You hit the pendejo trifecta!

Halfdump
Halfdump

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. CC is a non profit with a board, not a corporation. The CC board is made of yes men who are appointed & released at the will of the one in charge-the pastor. But you probably already knew that ;)

VatoLoco
VatoLoco

I know but gap toothed sounded better, and how the hell am I racist? my greatest hits?If I have a greatest hits compiled by you then m'fer you owe me some fucking royalties! lol

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

Totally a racist (want me to bring up your greatest hits), and anyone who sides with Calvary Chapel on ANYTHING is a homo-hater. If you're down with LGBT folks, then Calvary Chapel doesn't want you—simple as that.

And gap-toothed? My teeth are crooked, son!

Me
Me

<>Well, that's all well and good if the board functions in those roles and does things in the ETHICAL AND MORAL way, as you suggest a board functions. However, Bob Grenier *is* "the board" at his church (ask his youngest son, he is proud to say so too!). When board members question him, he removes them (it's happened). They are all "yes" men. It's a sick and twisted place. Trust me, I KNOW. He is a con man onto something he thinks he can retire on. Bob lives like a king while people work their behinds off to tithe their money to him. He makes FAR MORE than he should considering the cost of living here and the wages of the rest of his staff, as I have read. It's more twisted than even I want to believe. 

If you set the issue with Alex aside and just focus on Bob himself and what he has done to his flock, it's unimaginable. This stretches back 30 years. This issue is way bigger than a family matter. It's about people being hurt over, and over, and over. It's like some mafia family that runs that church. It's the most bizarre "church" model I have ever seen. So glad I saw the light and God showed the way out and onto greener pastures where the Pastor is actually a real shepherd of his flock.

VatoLoco
VatoLoco

dude you are soo off your rocker Gustavo it is pathetic.Definitely not racist, and defintely down with homos if that what you prefer to call people,

And apologist it what way there my gap toothed friend? 

gustavoarellano
gustavoarellano

Wow, you're an apologist for Calvary Chapel? That makes you a homo-hater along with your racism—congrats!

Ronnie
Ronnie

A guy who clearly doesn't even know the difference between "your" and "you're" is criticising writing ability and asking how old the writer is? Glass houses and stones, friend.  

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