DREAM Act Activists Release 'How To Stop Deportation' Guide

• The only loser here is you. You red neck hillbilly.

• You're a dick.

• How can all of you be so racist and hateful?  It's wrong that blacks were treated as slaves and then discriminated against; yet racist people thought it was right. It's wrong that gays aren't allowed to marry who they want; yet bigoted people think they have a say in that. It's wrong that undocumented children cannot pursue their dreams, but one day, they will win.  It is morally wrong to deny someone an education.  What are you afraid of?  That these children are smarter than you?  Are smarter than your own children?  That they are going to take over the world?  All they want is to contribute to it.   How can these children be criminals? When their parents take them to America illegally at seven years old, how can you call a two year  old a criminal? Should they say, "Stop, mom.  We shouldn't cross the border because it's wrong?"  What two year old has that capability? These kids grow up, pledge allegiance to the flag, and work hard. Why must they pay the price for their parents' crime?  If I were a parent and if I were living in a country where there was violence and poverty, I think I would try to whatever I could to make conditions better for my family. Wouldn't you do the same?  Many undocumented workers pay taxes.  That is the irony in our system.  They use ITIN numbers and they do not reap the benefits of those taxes.   I am an educator.  I work with young people.  Many of them are undocumented.  Not all of them are from Mexico.  They  are undocumented students from Asia, Africa, Russia, and other European countries.  If you were in their shoes, what would you do?  Would you go back to a country that you never knew since you were two years old?  Would you be willing to leave behind your family and all sense of security? 

• I read a few weeks ago about a lady who was a retiree and had been receiving social security for many years. She got a letter from Social Security stating that for the past two years, there was a work record with her social security number and they wanted to verify if she was working or not. She had not worked in several years. Apparently, someone, possibly an undocumented immigrant got ahold of her social security number and was using it for work purposes. Because of this, she may end having to repay social security for the benefits that she recieved over the past two years.

• I'm glad that someone on this reply list is at least thinking about their answers before posting. I've never heard of some of your arguments before but I still don't agree with you. You have a point in saying that undocumented immigrants do benefit from use of our infrastructure and military but if anything it is disproportional in favor of the states coffers and not the immigrants. The public goods you cite are nonrival goods which means that consumption of the good by one individual does not reduce availability for another. The United States government would be spending the same amount on military spending (and no I'm not the spending on border patrolling, that is a matter for another debate all together) and infrastructure regardless of whether or not the undocumented population was present. Also the nature of the taxation system is one where by paying taxes, you are made eligible for benefits that benefit the wider population (such as the ones you cited) and individual benefits such as Social Security benefits, medicare, driver's licenses, etc. Now undocumented immigrants only have access to one of these two types of benefits and not the other; so in the end, they are paying money into a government account and are only receiving part of the benefits for which they are paying.  As per identity theft, I agree with you whole heartedly; it is a very serious issue, however, the manner in which SSNs are used for undocumented workers is not the same as the typical identity theft that most people imagine. As you may or may not know, SSNs are not specific to the hold. Social Security Numbers turn over after the holder's death which means that if you were born after 1936, your SSN most likely belonged to someone before you. What happens in these cases is that an undocumented worker gets access to SSN that are not currently being used and effectively resurrect the record of someone so that they can work and pay taxes under that name. Illegal? yes. Wrong? maybe,. Harmful? No. Undocumented workers need to work under the radar for extended periods of time and it wouldn't help their cause if they are using SSNs that would alert someone so they buy the rights to SSNs that are not in use. Of course there are situations where the identity of other living citizens are stolen and I think that those should be dealt with appropriately, however, I do not equate the two forms of identity theft with each other. As per your statistics on students, lets illuminate something. Of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants (that's the ballpark of acceptable estimates for most people) an estimated 2 million are student age. Lets compare that to the 50 million k-12 students that wiki-answers provides. That means that undocumented students contribute merely 4% of the student age population. You may disagree with me on this but that is negligible. Yes we have problems with too many students and two few teachers but that problem far exceeds the 16 undocumented students in a school of 400. The problems of unfunded school boards, teacher's compensation, proper academic standards will not be solved by denying these children the basic right to an education. As per your argument that we wouldn't experience a brain drain, I respond that your argument is based on the presupposition that students that excel in the classroom ONLY come from "bright" parents. A couple of problems with that, just because the parents are low skilled and didn't have much schooling themselves does not make them stupid. Secondly I know enough brilliant individuals that come from humble backgrounds and none-too-smart parents to know that smart, driven students aren't just produced by educated, well-to-do parents. After all social mobility and the American Dream rely on individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds demonstrating their worth and intelligence. So YES, I  do think that by denying these students the inalienable right of an education, we are creating a Brain-drain, a tragedy in and of itself. Furthermore, we must acknowledge that simply because something is illegal does not make it inherently wrong. For this I cite things such as prohibition in the 1920s, Jim Crow up to the 1960s, and even things such as death penalties which continue today. The Laws of man are as imperfect as their architects. I am not advocating anarchy but rather declaring that reason needs to be used when considering laws rather than merely citing the fact that it's illegal (this applies to everyone that mindlessly repeats the phrase "what part of 'illegal' don't you understand"). We judge the merits of laws on a daily basis unless you've never considered speeding while driving or failing to report underage drinking that is so prevalent on college campuses. The same applies to immigration laws and immigration reform. If we think about it closely, we realize that the benefits that the undocumented population gives our society far exceed their costs. 

• What do you care? You can't vote because you are an illegal alien who should be on the next bus down to Mexico. Looks like you are SOL. (That means shit out of luck). Have a nice day, loser. LMFAO.

• Well, maybe we can deport your illegal asses when that child turns 18. You can have a birthday party for them, and a farewell party for you. P.S. That must have been some walk from some back-ass, 3rd world central american country.

• Immigration is not only the Hispanic issue.  It is a priority for other minorities and nationalities. It is sad that Obama is listening to hate groups and racists, and not using his power that was given to him by Working People. Where is Democracy in that?! Or may be he doesn’t care about 4 million American citizen children who lost or about to lose one or both parents. He never cared about immigration reform. He lied to get to the White House, he lied to become a President. Obama has unresolved personal issues with his father leaving him and his mama. He only became a President to proof that his papa was wrong.  Obama doesn’t care about people, he enjoys other people sufferings. Vote him out. Obama is just a miserable liar, who even cannot keep his word. Vote him out.   Immigration Act of 1986 blocked a lot of people from adjusting their status. Result: 11 million undocumented residents, 4 million American citizen children who leave in fear of losing parent or both parents, young students who a Americans without documents, spouses of American citizens who are being deported. Republicans enacted that Act to secure a supply of slave labor and ensure that there no way for the "slaves"  to become legal. Republicans knew that people were crossing the border, bringing families, having children. They knew about that in 1990, 1991,...2000. What did they do? NOTHING. Instead of revisiting the Immigration Act and fixing it's flaws, They did absolutely NOTHING. Republicans will fight tooth and nail against any legalization because they don't want to be sued by former "slaves" for underpaid wages and inhuman working conditions. Too sad that Obama calls that a Democracy.  

• Yep, we got good education, fluent in several languages. Not everybody is from Mexico. We have American citizen children. And there nothing you can do to deport them. You will have to pay for their education, welfare and medical care for the next 18 years. You can be mad all you want, but you already lost the "war", and nothing you can do about it. But you can do some damage control in the form of legalizing some groups of undocumented population. Are you smart enough to realize that?

• I would stand up for any and all legal citizens' rights. But illegal aliens should only have one right. And that is to return to where they came from.

• You seem to have thought about your answer, so let's look at some of your points. First, it is illegal to use someone else's SSN, and is a form of identity theft. I don't know about you, but I take identity theft very seriously. Second, I think you would agree that most illegal aliens that use a false SSN are low wage earners. As a result, they pay a lower amount of taxes. And the benefits they receive are the same as everyone. (I mean, the infrastructure I use isn't any better than what illegal aliens use, and the security I have from a strong military isn't any better, and the fire protection services I receive isn't any better). Therefore, they are actually receiving a disproportional share of benefits because they pay lower taxes. Third, why do you think student assessment test scores are so terrible? Let's look at some numbers, shall we? There are approximately 10 million illegal aliens in the US, and that is a low estimate. Let's say that 10% are K-12 students. That is 1 million students that are taking time, energy, and resources away from students that actually have a legal right to be in this country. Again, 1 million students. How much better do you think test scores would be without the illegal aliens? Fourth, how would a brain drain occur from denying illegal aliens an education? For the most part, these kids come from uneducated parents. They are not the best and the brightest of where they came from. So, let's be real here, the only immigrants that I see that are focused and driven are asians. And the percentage of asians that are illegal aliens is relatively small compared to latinos. Finally, we aren't going to be the richest country in the world for long. And even if we were, that doesn't mean we should have to incur expenses that are not ours. Given where our Federal government is, we are at the breaking point. We can't continue to subsidize other countries and their problems. Just a little more food for thought.

• You can't be serious. Either you are kidding, or a complete idiot who happens to be an illegal alien looking for another handout. Most likely the latter. (That means the second thing).

• Why do you think you deserve tax $$ more than anybody else? Today you are attacking young people because they don't have a piece of paper. Tomorrow somebody will be attacking you  for being too old, to sick or simply too stupid.

• Finally, our modern version of reparations... and to those W.A.S.Ps who will try to fight it, I ask, when in history have you taken a positive stand for the civil rights of AMERICANS?

• Well Drano you bring up a couple good points. Its a very popular talking point for people to say that immigrants are "cheating taxpayers". Now I challenge you to think about that and answer how exactly they are doing that. A typical response involves "blah blah blah...leeching on welfare." Well Drano (and all other critics) I don't know if you are aware of this but welfare requires you to prove your citizenship before you can receive anything. Many states are passing laws saying that you need to provide proof of lawful presence in the US but this is little more than reiteration of what is already a reality. Yes there are some people that find ways to break into the system just as their are Americans that find ways around restrictions on Welfare; it is an imperfection inherent in any welfare system. So for the most part undocumented immigrants don't really leech off the welfare system; in fact, because many undocumented people often adopt fake SSN they and their employers often work at a system by which the employer reports and pays income taxes on salaries paid to undocumented workers, taxes for which few immigrants ever experience the benefits. And of course they are also subject to the same sales taxes that you and your buddies pay.  Now its possible that you were referring to the fact that all public schools have a responsibility to educate all children and undocumented students "take advantage" of this offer. Well it may be true that some of our tax payer dollars go towards educating this future generation but that is an investment that needs to be cultivated rather than rejected. I believe that America is the wealthiest nation in the world because it took advantage of the best and brightest talent that was around and I don't think that initiating policy that would result in a brain drain will do much to help our economy (for a good example look at Germany after it started interning all of its educated Jewish Population). Studies show that children of immigrants are usually more focused, driven and ambitious than their counterparts. That's a heck of a population to be kicking to the curb when our schools already suffer from terrible grades on student assessment exams.  It's also possible that you are referring to the fact that undocumented immigrants use ER services in our hospitals. Well that part is true because undocumented immigrants don't go to the doctor until the problem turns into a serious complication. I have no rebuttal for this view other than the fact that we live in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world and I think that it is somewhat embarrassing that we spend so much time arguing over trivialities like "whether or not we should devote resources to save someone's life" (the answer for anyone that has a heart is 'yes') rather than thinking how we can solve the real problems confronting america like overwhelming medicare costs, engagement in three wars overseas, crumbling infrastructure, etc. Just food for thought.

• Well Mitch, California is only one of now 14 states that offers in-state tuition to all residents of the state regardless of immigration status. Which is precisely what our states should be doing. I don't believe that place of birth has any relation to your role in a society. As an american, I don't feel that the fact that I was born in Florida makes me any different than if I was born in Tijuana. Access to resources should not be determined by something as arbitrary as where you were born relative to an imaginary line but rather it should be determined by your contribution to the society. I agree with TrishT that not all undocumented students are shining lights of academic accomplishments just as not all american students are gifted students, but that doesn't mean that we should punish the ones that are. I believe that America was founded as a meritocracy, if you work hard you deserve to be rewarded regardless of faith, ethnicity or place of origin. With the economy the way it is, I would suggest that rather than shooting ourselves in the foot by forsaking gifted students that love America, lets let them give back to the communities that they love.  Also as per your second point, the 14th amendment of the constitution establishes birth right citizenship so whatever student you're referring to would be an American citizen if he was born in the US. Undocumented students are the ones that are brought across the border at very young ages. I also don't think that knowing a lot about your culture of origin precludes you from identifying as an American. Think about all of your friends that can trace their ethnic lineage background through generations. I disagree that if Tom wants to know about the germany that his grandparents left behind, that he is unamerican.

• So....a child can't be a criminal. Oh brother. You better go down to Juve Hall and see if children can be criminals. And the last time I heard, 18 year olds are ADULTS. These illegal immigrants do not have the right to stay here for any reason. Just because their parents brought them here isn't an excuse. If they want to do the right thing, all illegal aliens should return to their country and come here legally. And you are right, we have already funded his K-12 education. So, why should we fund their college educaiton? He will be more than qualified to get a decent job in his country of origin. It's better than any kind of education they would have received from where they came from. Otherwise, they'd still be there.

• In California they receive the biggest subsidy of all, in-state tuition (worth about 3/4 of the total cost of education). And I find it hard to believe these 'children' have little knowledge of their own countries. Look at Arellano, he was born here ( I think) but apparently speaks MexiSpanish, knows a lot about Mexico, etc.

• Great idea except this person probably knows nothing about their homeland.  Undocumented students are already assimilated into American culture. Some of the kids I work with don't even know their cultural language -- that's how entrenched they are into our society.  This person would be a tremendous asset to OUR country. Why don't we help him stay HERE  and make this world better? Our tax dollars have already  gone into funding his public education ( undocumented students pay their OWN tuition for college.  They receive NO federal financial aid or public scholarships).  Remember, these are CHILDREN we talk about.  Children who work hard and want to contribute to our society. They are not criminals. 

• They should rename the guide "How to break American laws and cheat the American taxpayer". What kind of citizens will these people make if they make it that far? Trying to characterize this as anything other than fraud is self-delusion.

•  Wouldn't this person be a tremendous asset to the country of his birth? Let's help him go back and contribute there -- almost by definition they need him more than we do.

• There are good and bad people of all races, cultures, documented and undocumented. My post was in response to the continuing theme 'the Dream children will save us because our own kids suck'. I have no issue with undocumented students who prove their worth through service to our Country or by obtaining degrees in fields of study that will advance our Country. My issue is with the attitude of some people who think that the only way to advance the cause of these students is to make others appear unworthy.

• i actually have a friend who is undocumented and has over 10 certifications in computer and networking has a bachelors degree graduated top of his class, yet he can't contribute due to the fact he has no way to work. Your son is no different then he is, Their both great people and have accomplished so much, yet only one of them can contribute to our society.

• Blop: I have a son who is a high school honor student, is in the marching band, jazz band, and on the academic decathlon team. He has his own pet care business and is looking for a summer job. In the last two years he has volunteered over 220 hours at the local homeless shelter. And he is not that unusual. In fact, most of the young Americans I know are great people. I am sorry that the children of your family and friends are not worthy in your eyes. But please quit slandering the other young people of this country. Saying bad things about them does not make you or children here illegally look better.

• Oh wow They would actually have a better use of your taxes than most "americans". They just want to study and move on with their lives.

• Bummed about your illegal status?  Blame the people who smuggled you in thus creating a life outside the law and hindering your prospects for success.  Don't expect us to roll over to your "demands".  Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, we deserve it.

• I'd worry, but I don't many will even bother to access this, let alone read it. 

• You both sound ignorant 

• Didn't get their way; now, their true colors show.  

• Why are we enabling illegal immigrants more? The only guide that should be published is how to deport them, save some of my tax $$ for people who need it and deserve it.

TotalComments: 30