Hate Pedo-Priests, Catholics? Then Don't Tithe This Sunday

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• I am heartbroken, my husband and myself have been asked to resign from our culture of life ministry because we thought we had signed up for a culture of life group which did fund raisers and campaigns to help raise an awareness of the Catholic Position on Life Issues such as abortion, euthanasia and the dying and persons with disabilities. We were asked to represent the moderator of our group at the last diocese meeting in regards to 40Days of Life Peaceful Vigil but were told up front we were not allowed to commit to any days. When we attended this meeting, we were so excited about all the different campaigns such as operation rice bowl that all the other parishes were doing, these types of events are never even brought up at our meetings. We met Stephanie from St. Joseph's and she said her group was doing this for the first time on 3/14 at the planned parenthood in Tustn and why don't we join her group on that day so we said sure. Well, that was insubordination apparently and we have been asked to resign from the Ministry. They tell us that we continually try to change things and constantly present new ideas and ways to get our parish to join in with us. They don't want to enlist any new members since we only have 5 people who ever attend the meetings so that doesn't get us much help at these campaigns we do. We are only trying to help make our ministry the best it can be and right now it's just a sleepy little group that isn't very active so I guess our sin was to at least try to get everyone excited about trying something different to help us meet our deadlines better but they prefer to struggle through each event we do. Sorry, I just needed to vent I guess. I became catholic 2 years ago at the easter vigil and I love my church but my husband and myself just don't seem to fit at St. Cecilia's.

• I hope OC Catholics will take note that THIS weekend (Dec 13-14) in most parishes you will have the national collection for retired religious. (These are the nuns and brothers who taught you in school and probably got paid NOTHING for their service--you may not know this.) The same diocese that just finished bragging about rolling in dough is now pleading poverty when it comes for caring for parish priests. (Certainly their responsibility, but you can't have it both ways.) As a result, poor Bp Todd with 2 d's has announced that he must once again SKIM OFF 50% of the collection meant for the elderly nuns and divert those funds to the coffers of the diocese, ostensibly for "priest care." The old-boy network will never be satisfied.

• And isn't THIS the oddest article you've ever read on the subject of Catholic church finances: http://taxdollars.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/13/after-priest-scandal-catholic-dioceses-financial-rebound-is-heavenly/338/ The strangest aspect of this article is that it cites an audit report dated November 2007 (see the website of the Diocese for a PDF copy). By now we should have the November, 2008 report on the fiscal year ended June 30, 2008--but the diocese hasn't posted it. So, this doesn't really constitute "news" in any respect. I'm assuming that someone at the Diocese thinks it's time for some positive spin at the suppliant Register, so let's dig around and find something good and circulate it in the media! BUT the real question is why in the world would the Bishop be pushing this bit of fiscal information that's over a year old in the press NOW? To show how rich the church is when everyone else is loosing money or becoming unemployed?

• Stephanie When I was a little boy, the most trusted people in my life, other than my parents, were, in this order; Priests, Doctors, Firemen and the Mailman. Now that I'm grown up, I've learned many things because I asked many questions and did a lot of reading. As a result, the most trusted people in my lfe has changed drastically. If I ask myself, how many priests have been involved in abusing God's children or how many bishops have been involved in moving abusive priests' from parish to parish or how many priests' or bishops have been sent to jail for what they did to God's children. or how many billions of dollars has the hierarchy paid out to keep from going to trial to protect themselves and to keep their records secret, or how many millions of dollars are stolen from Sunday collections but the security measures that the hierarchy has provided to all parishes to protect the contributions were never made mandatory, or how many Catholic schools have been closed, or how much Catholic propery has been sold, or how many Catholic publications are the bishop Editor of or who holds the deeds to all parishes, my answer would not be the Catholic churchgoers because they have no power or control . Bishops, had complete power and complete control AND STILL DO. Yes Stepanie, they still have all the power and control and they are still in charge. Stephanie, please tell us what would God do or say if He was on earth? Let me think. Maybe he would say, get off your butt and do something about it. The people that are trying to do something about it, can not do it alone, they need help. They do not have any money, and the bishops are using your money and mine to discredit us. They want you to think we are out to harm the Church when in fact, they are responsible for the litany of problems the Catholic Church is experiencing. If you are unable to see or understand that, maybe you should do a little more homework.. I love the Church but if I remain silent when I am awere of all I've mentioned above, I will not be able look at myself in the mirror . What is it going to take to get the hierarchy to be Open, to be Accountable or to be Transparent. . I honestly believe that if you showed some of these coments (mine I hope) to your pastor, he would shake his head and and tell you, these people have a vendetta against the church and I'm glad you brought this to my attention Stephanie. You are a good Catholic and you must not pay any attention to all this material. Then, if he hasn't turned away without answering all these allegations, ask him if all these comments are false. I believe you still will not get any answers from him. Or you can just remain silent and not ask your pastor or priest anything. God be with you.

• All money, now over $3 BILLION DOLLARS IN THE USA alone (www.bishop-accountability.org/abusetracker), is diverted from laity offetory donations, or annual appeals, or 'skim' from designated monies, for "adminsitrative costs" through "A Corporation Sole"... There are no laity monies donated to the Roman Catholic Church that are not being DIRECTLY used for the continued, aid, abet, enabe, racketeer, obstructing justice, and state by sate lobbying against the extension of statute of limitation laws or child protection laws, directly by the USCCB or their surrogates and partners in crime, the laity paid for insurance lobby, under-writing the continued child endagerment. the unpunished and unremoved curia has caused, is causing, and will continue to cause. "STOP DONATING LAITY!" St. Peter Damien Tod Brown & Roger Mahony are clear and present criminal dangers to all laity, and all children's safety, as well as most of the USCCB. they deserve to be removed, canonically censored, and placed under house arrest like equally guilty Marciel was, founder of the pedo cult Legion of Christ and Regnun Christi, or alternatively EXCOMMUNICATED, at a mimium, immediately, if not sooner! Fiat Lux, Albino Luciani, MURDERED POPE

• Or, here's another idea--call over to the diocese and ask them where the money the bishop paid for the Orange sex abuse scandal or the $1,000,0000 he gave to the diocese of Santa Rosa when they went broke because of THEIR sex abuse scandal came from. If they are honest they will admit that at least part of it comes from the "parish assessment." (This is code for "this is the money Bp. Todd Brown is taking from your parish for his own ratty needs.") OR even better yet, simply download the financial statements from www.rcbo.org.

• Stephanie seems like an extremely nice person and a loyal Catholic who strives to believe the best about the church, but who has been misinformed about the financial world of Catholicism. (Instead of speaking to the pastor of your parish, I'd suggest you speak to the bookkeeper/accountant--your eyes will be opened! The "separate pot" for the parish is in actuality a legal fiction, primarily set up to give people like Stephanie a warm fuzzy feeling that the money they give stays in the parish.) The Bishop of Orange, a corporation sole, owns and controls all church property (including the cash) anywhere and for all parishes in the diocese. (In this case it's NOT "your money" as the GOP is so fond of saying...) Whatever funds your parish retains for its work is at the sole discretion of the bishop; it could be yanked tomorrow (and sometimes is) regardless of how high or low your weekly collection is. As comforting as it is to think that "oh my parish isn't involved in scandal X Y or Z" "oh I wouldn't go to THAT church" or "my money doesn't support the PSA" it's a sad illusion; by definition and governance you ARE involved!!!! You give money to Bp. Tod Brown, a corporation sole, every Sunday. To simply go to church week after week remaining silent about what's going on but voting "yes" with your collection dollars is a sin in itself. Now, all that having been said I'd echo one of the comments above--go over to Isaiah house (it's not far) and give them whatever money you'd give to the parish this week. Low overhead; money goes directly to the poor. That's what I'm doing. Better yet, participate in supporting the homeless there. That's what I'm doing. Or find a poor family in your parish (you have plenty) and write them a check or give them a bag of groceries. This is not an all-or-nothing decision.

• U S C C B = Unremoved Sexual Crime Cabal Bishops B R O W N = Bishop Rapist Of Westen Note C U R I A = Cosanostra Unrepentent Rapists Injuring Apostolate

• Sarah! Beware of allegedly well intentioned (but KOOL AID drinking) parishioners bearing gifts or invitations... If they can lace my heart medication with poison (IN GOD'S NAME by David Yallop), what chance have you, for an offer of "coffee"? HELL ON EARTH is a clear and present danger, in the ongoing crimianl conduct of the USCCB and Roman Curia, and it's WAY past time to shut off all their funding from the laity. No Curia Accountability? No Laity Monies! Albino Luciani, MURDERED POPE

• Sarah, contact me and we will set up a place and time to talk. I would welcome to talk to you about the Catholic Church and hopefully encourage your interest in it. Coffee?

• The ONLY thing the USCCB and Roman Curia care about is their revenue source$. IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY, YOURS LAITY, BEING PLACED INTO A CRIMINAL COVER UP BY THE CARDINALS & BISHOPS IN THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS with NO correction. St. Peter Damien was correct, hit miters and red hats where it hurts, their pocket books, for their ongoing unrepentant, unpunished, and serial criminal deviant and unremoved EVIL lifestyles by "STOP DONATING LAITY"! Mr. Douglas has not taken his idea far enough, not one Sunday per month, but several years of consecutive Sundays, as well as Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, Holy Days, etc. The USCCB & Roman Curia Credo & Motto Remains: Isaiah 28:15! "Do not deal in the fruitless deeds of darkness, but expose them!" St. Paul to the Ephesians, 5:11 "The only condition for the triumph of evil is for good men (or women) to do nothing!" Edmund Burke For the scorched-earth aand criminal daily vetted and verified reporting on the fleecing of laity funds in the mutiple billions of dollars per year: www.bishop-accountability.org/abusetracker No Curia Accountability & Removal? No Problem! No Laity Monies Either! FIAT LUX! Albino Luciani MURDERED POPE Posto Scripto: At www.amazon.com read over 100 recently published books on the subject from such salient & cogent authors as Roman Catholic Bishops Thomas Gumbleton (USA), Jeffery Robinson (Australia) and retired/ailing Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini of Milano (Italy). Other empirical and 100% acurate authors include: Richard Sipe, Dr. Leon Podles, Jason Berry, Dr. Robert Grant, MD, Attorney Marci Hamilton, Fr. Thomas Reese, SJ, Fr./Dr. Howard Bleichner, SS, and Fr./Dr./Canon Lawyer Thomas Doyle, OP, to name only a few. On fim & DVD: 2006 : US Academy Award BEST DOCUMENTARY nominated 'DELIVER US FROM EVIL' 2007: 'Crtically Acclaimed & Cannes Film Festival Winner: 'VOWS OF SILENCE' 2008: In national movie theathers in early December of this year, 'DOUBT' Starring US academy Award Winning BEST ACTRESS Meryl Streep & US Academy Award Winning BEST ACTOR Phillip Seymor Hoffman

• Yes, it is true OC Catholics! You are being governed by a Catholic Bishop who cannot stand up to the evil roots that created and continue the clergy sex abuse crisis today. Bishop Brown calls all the shots,... who is hired, who is fired and who stays. In many ways, Bishop Brown is in the same awkward position of former Sheriff Mike Carona when he was warned NOT to fire George Jaramillo. Testimony today says that George Jaramillo knew everything... and if Carona fired Jaramillo, a forest fire would burn intensely, with all the houses in it. This is the same type of terror that Bishop Brown faces.... especially if he fires the Diocesan General Counsel, Maria Rullo Schinderle and/or defense attorneys Peter Callahan, Daniel Sullivan and Albert Ballog, just think of the forest fire that would burn based on the illegal activity of attorneys who know better. Children should never be placed at risk ever.... but Brown prefers to protect he and his accomplices from the same type of federal trial Carona, Haidl, Jaramillo and Cavallo face. One has to wonder if there was any type of "free passes" out of jail issued to the Diocesan pedophiles based on Jaramillo and Cavallo having children who attended Santa Margarita Catholic HS and the wealthy corporate, political and government donors that practice Catholicism in the Diocese of Orange. Just keep 'em coming Bishop Brown.... just know if one child is every hurt again because you played the coward, others are watching over precious children, that you care less about, and the truth will never be buried again.

• Stephanie, Am interested in hearing more about how a parish church is governed. Does the diocese own your parish? Does your parish work in service to the diocese? If the Bishop said tomorrow that your parish is suppressed, your church would absolutely be closed, would it not? If the Bishop said that Fr. Moneypenny must leave today and join another parish, would you or Fr. Moneypenny even bother to protest knowing that you have no choice? It is precisely the way the parish is governed that is most troubling. Since the Bishop is in charge of whether your church is open and what pastor your church has and how much money your parish will give to the Bishop, it is in your parish's best interest for no one to criticize the Bishop or the Bishop's mishandling of sexual abuse of children. It is in your parish's best interest to say nothing at all about the safety of your own children. Is that what you were going to demonstrate to Mr. Arellano regarding the way a parish is governed? Sarah Kleman

• Bernie: How do you know my faith? So I take it you're a pedo-apologist? Stephanie: I know how a church is governed, being I've been a member of St. Boniface since birth, my mami was actively involved in the annual fiesta and other fundraising efforts, and others that I knew/know are involved in all aspects of its life. I also know how St. Boniface shut down its school--the oldest Catholic school in the Diocese of Orange after the Mission school--because they had no more money. I remember the pleadings of alumni (like my sisters) and current parents to Brown to not close it, to give them money, to no avail. And I would question the character of <i>any</i> Diocese of Orange priest who functions under the authority of Brown. I'm sure Father Moneypenny's a swell guy, but I only know of one diocesan priest who has openly criticized Brown's actions from the pulpit, and that's a disgrace. The problem with the Church will be everlasting until the cancer is removed, and it infects all.

• i hijole, cabron ! i thought you were talking about drunk priests:D no mames.

• Why is holding back on donation a month detrimental to the Church's mission? Afterall, the Diocese actually paid an admitted sexual predator hundreds of thousands of dollars to dismiss his defamation lawsuit against the Diocese. WHERE DID THAT MONEY COME FROM? If you are reluctant to hold back a donation once a month, please write Bishop Tod a letter: Dear Bishop Brown: Why did you pay a sexual predator hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2004 to disappear? Did the money paid to an admitted sexual predator come from my and others' Sunday donations? Why do you pay attorneys who have obviously committed legal malpractice in advising you throughout the years? Is this the example you want to send to our children? How to pay hush money to make a sexual predator disappear. Respectfully, One of the Faithful in the Pews who CARES ABOUT ALL CHILDREN!

• It is difficult to continue observing the faithful in the pews that REFUSE to research the truths relating to heinous crimes that destroyed children, adults and families for decades. For those who want to make a difference, especially as it relates to protecting children and employees facing career ruin each time they report sex abuse to law enforcement as mandated by law, the Church only understands one thing: MONEY.... and more MONEY... and more MONEY! If Bishop Brown was concerned about protecting children in his Diocese, he would have fired ALL of the employees and attorneys who aided and abetted the cover up of sex crimes. Instead, Bishop Brown plays the ostrich and rewards ENABLERS of child endangerment with life-long employment. Let's see now. Brown's General Counsel and his defense team of attorneys have already cost Orange County Catholics approximately $107 million since 2004. Brown knows that his wealthy parishoners will continue to bail he and his corrupt attorneys out of public scandal and embarrassing sex abuse litigation. Does anyone read the news? Brown's Diocese has revealed one sexual predator after another hurting a precious child as recent as last week. HELLO PEOPLE.... are you paying attention? Will Brown fire the employees who failed to report sex crimes and other violations of the law to law enforcement? NO--there are too many dirty secrets still hiding in secret files. If Brown fires the employees who aided him in cover ups, he knows that a jail cell may be in his future. Do you think Brown will do the right thing? I would bet NO. Does Brown have an open door policy where concerned Catholics can speak with him? NO. Communications to Brown most likely never reach him and if you are lucky enough, maybe the Diocesan General Counsel will maintain confidentiality for pastoral privilege, after she sets up her legal strategy to attack you, your spouse and family. Then if you are lucky, she will offer counseling to you.... with one exception, you must counsel with a therapist chosen by the Diocese and who is paid by the Diocese. Is anyone connecting the dots yet? Does Brown punish Diocesan employees for reporting child endangerment to the appropriate authorities? YES. Speak with one of the Diocesan employees or a former Diocesan employee. Brown allows his supervisory employees and attorneys to defame, perjure themselves, obstruct justice, continue negligent legal advice and the result is this: CHILDREN ARE IN DANGER! To the faithful in the pews: Please do your homework. Please independently research the facts about Bishop Brown's fine-tuned corrupt Diocese, all about MONEY! And MONEY is all they understand.... give your money to Catholic Charities and maybe Diocesan attorneys will discount their excessive and abusive legal fees. Please look your children in the eyes... how would you react if you knew that an employee/priest of the Diocese molested your child when he showed up to serve Mass? Lastly, once you feel the pain of one of your children being sexually violated by a trusted member of the clergy, then ask yourself: If I hold back a donation once a month, will Bishop Brown start taking responsibility for protecting ALL children, instead of making his General Counsel and attorneys independently wealthy?

• Mr. Manly: You said, "it is a common misconception that parish funds go to charity. Typically they don't. They go to support "pastoral work" ie.. church business." That is my point - the weekly collections do support church business and it is the business of that local parish. And that business includes charity. Actually, it is hard to call it charity unless you are coming froma totally secular viewpoint. I say that because most people think of charity as something extraordinary, something added after the business at hand is done. Well, the services I describe ARE the business at hand of the Church and holding back collections serve to punish the recipients of those services. I was not aware that Fr. Moneypenny had to attend SNAP demonstrations to prove his credentials as a good priest. Of course, I would argue that his daily work does that, but since you have never witnessed that, it would be pointless. Your comment about former priests at St. Joseph surprises me coming from a lawyer. Guilt by association? As a matter of fact, I have talked to Fr. Moneypenny about the past history (for those who do not know, Fr. Moneypenny came to the parish in 2004 and has been pastor since 2005), but you seem to imply that HIS character comes into question because of the conduct of others. Sloppy, sloppy. And yes, there is a large, ugly mural on the back of St. Joseph, placed there in the 1980's by a priest who is no longer in such a profession, thank God. And there are plans to remove it - but again, how does that bring into question the character of the current priests there? It seems to me your threw that into your post simply for the sake of gratuitous sensationalism. I have invited Mr. Arellano to return to my parish and attend Mass there - what about it, Gustavo? Are you going to come and learn about how a parish church is governed? BTW, Tod Brown's actions do bother me - which is why I do not contribute to the Pastoral Services Appeal, which is at the diocesan level. Instead, I place my tithe in that basket that comes around, knowing it goes to keep St. Joseph's Church functioning. I do not mean to insult you, but as you are likely not an active member of any parish, I don't think you have the proper understanding to see why your call to withhold funds would hurt the local church and do little or nothing to have an impact on Tod Brown.

• See, Steph, you cannot reason with these money-grubbing ambulance chasers and their lapdog scribes. They are ideologues, and they'd say black was white, if it meant more money for them or another chance to rip the church. Gus is a self-hating Catholic. He's devout at that, at least. Manly got rich taking 40 percent or more of every victim's settlement. They both have agendas that depend on them saying that there's nothing good in organized religion. You tried your best, but don't bother with these guys again.

• Tod Brown is Satan.

• Stephanie: I see where you're coming from. But your comment serves my point perfectly. As a faithful Catholic, doesn't it bother you and others that the meager funds ustedes raise each Sunday pale in comparison to the multimillion-dollar house Tod Brown lives in, or the one he bought near South Coast Plaza? Or that Brown, instead of redistributing the wealth, would rather pay lawyers to annoy pesky journalists like myself or pay off admitted statutory rapists like Jeff Andrade? Any change in the cancer of the Orange diocese can only be cured from the bottom up, and I'm just not seeing it happy, which makes me sad.

• Stephanie, you sound like you are a good person and the Church is lucky to have people like you. However, it is a common misconception that parish funds go to charity. Typically they don't. They go to support "pastoral work" ie.. church business. Lately it seems their primary work is shuttling pedophilic clergy. Almost all of the Diocese of Orange charitable work is funded through Catholic Charities of Orange County. Ninety percent of Catholic Charities budget is funded by public money . I know this because I successfully represented the former executive director of Catholic Charities who sued the diocese. The Diocese takes in around a hundred million dollars a year from the plate at parishes. As of last time I looked the Diocese contributed a grand total of 400,00 dollars to charity per year. In other words 4 percent of their parish income goes to charitable work. They spend more that on pr hacks and slick lawyers trying to silence victims of priest molestation. Furthermore the diocese' own the parishes. As for Father Moneypenny I don't recall him attending any rallies for victims of molestation. You might also ask Father Moneypenny about the numerous former priests at your your parish who molested kids. ( I should also point out that Mr. Arellano has visted your parish and wrote a lengthy piece describing the mural of Christ on the back of the Church. If my memory serves me correctly it was entitled; "Boner Jesus") My suggestion is if people are going to withold money this Sunday give it to the Catholic Worker in Santa Ana. You can be sure your money will buy food and clothing for those truly in need. It will not be used to support a perfumed prince like Bishop Todd Brown. John C. Manly Manly and Stewart

• Why is it that when police officers engage in pedophilia, rape, incest, murder, domestic violence, or whatever else you can come up with, we don't call for the end of the police department? Why is the Catholic Church expendable and not the police department? Does that not mean all religion should be expendable because of the failings of it's members? Perhaps we should start dispatching with any institution that has any associate, manager, leader, etc., that does not live up to our standards and/or commits heinous crimes, regardless of what that institution has provided during it's existence? Or is that only OK if it's not your institution? Seems we recently saw this with Prop 8. The lesson here is...be careful what you wish for. This poem was famously written by Pastor Martin Niem�r on his experience living in Nazi Germany: "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn�t speak up because I wasn�t a Communist; And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn�t speak up because I wasn�t a trade unionist; And then they came for the Jews, And I didn�t speak up because I wasn�t a Jew; And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

• Stephanie, wake up..... so the church goes under... it might just be the best thing to happen...... everyone who donates to protecting pedophiles is accountable... There is no other answer.. There are not a few, there are many.... Stop donating, stop the hierarchy from living their lives of lousy integrity...they need to be accountable. Best regards to you, Judy

• Gustavo, I think that is a bad idea and let me tell you why. The weekly collections at Mass for any Catholic parish is their primary source of income. The money is not thrown into a common pot at the Diocese and then redistributed to the parishes. So withholding the money does not serve to send Tod brown a message - rather, it serves to punish a local parish that relies on those monies to help it serve the people. I invite you to go to St. Joseph's website at www.stjosephsa.org and click on the "Bulletin" tab to read last week's bulletin and see how much money the Sunday collections make. Not a whole helluva lot. But the two priests there, as well as lay volunteers, work very hard to make sure the people have access to their faith, that they can receive instruction on the Sacraments, that the soup kitchen can take place every Saturday, that ESL classes go on, that local kids can go to our parish school and we can get them tuition assistance, that the lights stay on so people can marry and baptize their babies and bury their dead, that the church itself - a beautiful structure and I invite you to come and see the inside - doesn't fall into disrepair and have a piece of Santa Ana history lost. Before you make a suggestion like this, understand how a parish gets its income and what it is spent on. I am sure that if you call over at the rectory, Fr. Moneypenny would sit and talk with you - better still, I will take you both out to lunch so you can ask whatever questions you want in a friendly setting. But I tell you, withholding donations from your local church only helps to keep it from operating and St. Joseph - like so many others - is staffed by priests who did nothing to contribute to the scandal and deserve to be supported in their vocations. Are there rotten bastards out there wearing a Roman collar? Oh yeah, to be sure. There are some churches in the OC that I would not touch with a 10' pole. But the suggestion you have to show Tod Brown a thing or two hurts the good ones and, more importantly, hurts their parishioners. BTW, I am always at the 11:00 English Mass on Sundays - feel free to come and sit with me and my family. Best regards, Stephanie

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